Author Topic: YAY Newsletter: Information About New Product (Read 125387 times)

cthoman · « **Reply #50 on:** April 18, 2013, 18:54 »

Quote from: Phil on April 18, 2013, 16:57

So did your market research, did it say the limiter is price?

If it did, you should find some new market researchers because they are wrong.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #51 on:** April 18, 2013, 19:17 »

lets not forget the sizes at YAY

- Small (0.3MP)
- Medium (3MP)
- Large (full size)

don't want to call SS here but we (SS) are/is actually selling 750 downloads for 250$, making 33 cents per download and I believe full size, so in fact I believe we should give it a go, then we will decide (at least I will)

CD123 · « **Reply #52 on:** April 18, 2013, 20:11 »

Quote from: luissantos84 on April 18, 2013, 19:17

lets not forget the sizes at YAY

- Small (0.3MP)
- Medium (3MP)
- Large (full size)

don't want to call SS here but we (SS) are/is actually selling 750 downloads for 250$, making 33 cents per download and I believe full size, so in fact I believe we should give it a go, then we will decide (at least I will)

I am with you on this bro

Zelfit · « **Reply #53 on:** April 19, 2013, 01:45 »

Quote

so in fact I believe we should give it a go

Okay go on. Let's show every agency that we are ok with cutting commission to 17%.

CD123 · « **Reply #54 on:** April 19, 2013, 05:05 »

Quote from: Zelfit on April 19, 2013, 01:45

Quote
so in fact I believe we should give it a go
Okay go on. Let's show every agency that we are ok with cutting commission to 17%.

No they did not.
So your advice, let us rather keep on complaining .......(removed) about sites with limited sales and every time they do something which makes business sense to improve their sales, we bark like rabies infected dogs at them if they dare try to be competitive and touch our commission (even if it means they can not compete against the rest of the industry which have already done so).
You can then joyfully cheer them on, while their ship goes down, because they do so with honor in your books.

rubyroo · « **Reply #55 on:** April 19, 2013, 05:46 »

Deleting message, as it's no longer relevant and will confuse newcomers to the thread. Thanks for the hearts though.

Microbius · « **Reply #56 on:** April 19, 2013, 06:12 »

I still think YAY are very wrong about this for the reasons already discussed, but I really have to applaud the way you have been communicating here and trying to adjust the scheme.

Also again applaud the opt outs you offer and the fact that you will be soon offering an opt out for YAY too. Really great, especially when you compare it to the way IStock works with its PPs

ETA: corrected typo "offering" not "offing"!

Linda - YayMicro · « **Reply #57 on:** April 19, 2013, 06:29 »

Charl: Thank you! We try to listen and address concerns, our contributors are our most important partners.

Shiyali: Thank you! We try our best.

noodle: You're right - the bottom line is the most important part. Hopefully we'll get sales up, and in new segments.

m@m: We understand if anyone would like to wait. The adjustments will be made as we see how the image deals sells.

@roede-orm: You'll see some in this forum, and we've gotten several supportive emails. People appreciate that we try to target new segments, hoping it will increase their overall earnings.

@somethingpretentious: We'll keep it simple for all our customers, giving a royalty free license. Most corporate customers need high-res images, so we don't expect them to shift. Remember, we want to make money as well

And for the commission - we've been clear about 50% on image sales and €1 / $1,3 on image deals. After increasing our prices the last couple of years we saw the need to increase the commission as well, and you now get $2 for high-res downloads.

@Phil: You are right, it don't look like it will add up to 44%. If we sell only 10-packs of images and none of the 100 and 500 it won't be either. But if this happens we will adjust the commission again to get an average ≈ 50%. Our system don't support different commission on the same image sized deals, and that's why we have to use an average. At the end of the day a part of this will have to be trust, until we get a better system. If you don't feel you can trust us I would recommend you to hold off on giving us the responsibility to represent your images until there is enough trust in place.

Music and images are very different products, and images have much broader and varied segments and uses. Our main focus is on new ways people use both technology and images, trying to adapt to the changes.

Low prices and low commission cut in $: It's difficult / impossible for a company to have low prices and high commission in $. If we sell an image for $1 it's limited how much we can give out in commission. What we focus on is to give a fair cut of our earnings from each customer ≈50%, not on giving a fair commission based on dollars / image. We might not agree on this, and I can only say that our goal is to give a fair share of the earnings. All the money coming in to YAY goes to running YAY and trying to get an even higher growth rate. And we haven't cut your commission, we've raised it for all image deals, giving you $2 for each high-res dollar - and aiming for a ≈50% on all our deals.

And of course we don't see price as the only way to get new segments. It's a mix of features, including price. We'll release new services this year that better incorporates all this. Price is an important feature for non-commercial users, and it's difficult to get them to pay considerably more for image than for any other service they use - especially when most still consider Google images as "free images". It's a complex process, and we are trying out different solutions and mixes in order to 'get it right'.

@cthoman: It didn't - but it's one of several considerations.

@luissantos84 Thanks

@Zelfit: Our commission is 50% on credit sales, 50% on partner sales and an average of 44% on image deals.

@Microbius: Thank you! We know that all of you won't agree with us, but we still think it's important to have this discussion. Giving you an opt-out from YAY will make things easier in the future, making it easier to take action if you disagree in the way we do business - and easier to join in when you see the huge success we'll have and how much money all of us will make

CD123 · « **Reply #58 on:** April 19, 2013, 06:50 »

Quote from: rubyroo on April 19, 2013, 05:46

I'm not a dog lover, but I have a very special affection for elderly ladies who deal with a multiple of difficulties, obstacles, sadnesses and tragedies often with tremendous bravery and not a whisper of complaint. Could we lose the 'old woman...' phrase there please?

Just heard my mother in law is coming to visit, so it felt appropriate. But so noted, so appreciated and so done, my lady

CD123 · « **Reply #59 on:** April 19, 2013, 06:54 »

Quote from: Microbius on April 19, 2013, 06:12

I still think YAY are very wrong about this for the reasons already discussed, but I really have to applaud the way you have been communicating here and trying to adjust the scheme.

Also again applaud the opt outs you offer and the fact that you will be soon offing an opt out for YAY too. Really great, especially when you compare it to the way IStock works with its PPs

And I applaud your enlightened view point.

rubyroo · « **Reply #60 on:** April 19, 2013, 06:58 »

Thanks CD123. Much appreciated... and I applaud Microbius too.

dirkr · « **Reply #61 on:** April 19, 2013, 08:08 »

Linda and Jan,

first of all thanks for coming here and explaining your plans and answering detailed questions.
Thanks also for listening to our concerns and adjusting the plans. One of my major concerns was about commission percentage, and your stated goal of keeping that close to 50% is very much appreciated.

It cannot be stated clearly enough that this behaviour of open discussion, taking contributor concerns seriously and trying to keep up fair commissions sets you apart from most of your competitors.
That alone will bring you a lot goodwill and support from many contributors (me included).

Nevertheless a few questions / remarks remain:

When you talk about an opt-out from Yay, does this mean from all direct sales or only from the newly introduced packge deals? Would there be a possibility to opt out from the package deals but still have images on offer for single image direct sales via the Yay website?

And: Jan mentioned "social media accounts" as one possible target usage for these new packages. To my knowledge there might be some licensing conflicts, as (afaik) e.g. facebook still requires user who upload images to provide rights they do not get with a regular RF licence (e.g. the right to sub-licence). How do you want to address this? Widen your licence terms or rather explicitely mention that uploading to such social media sites is NOT covered by the licence?

fotografer · « **Reply #62 on:** April 19, 2013, 08:28 »

Quote from: cidepix on April 16, 2013, 10:08

when I first started to sell through my own channels I was pricing the images at $3 to test the waters, then increased the prices to $9-10 levels.. to my surprise, the number of transactions did NOT drop a bit.. and I started earning 3 times more just by increasing prices..

I agree completely with this. At Dt my sales don't drop at all on images as they go up through the price levels. Of my last 10 credit sales at DT, 9 are level 5 and the other one is level 4.

Linda - YayMicro · « **Reply #63 on:** April 19, 2013, 08:29 »

@dirkr

Thank you so much for your kind words! Having these dialogues inspires us to continue with our transparency policy

For your questions:

Opt-out will be for the whole site. We don't want our customers to experience that they can't access all the images on the site.

But: When we later this year launch new products we will have them on a new site, and you will be able to opt out from all our new product without opting out from our main yaymicro-site.

We'll make sure to give you all the information about this when we're closing in on a launch. You'll then have the option to opt-out from any partners, from yay main site and/or from our new products - and create the opt-in mix you like best.

As for using images on social media sites we'll have to look closer into licensing terms at different sites, and we'll make sure the user knows what limitations might exist.

ShadySue · « **Reply #64 on:** April 19, 2013, 08:37 »

Quote from: Linda - YayMicro on April 19, 2013, 08:29

As for using images on social media sites we'll have to look closer into licensing terms at different sites, and we'll make sure the user knows what limitations might exist.

Facebook:
Sharing Your Content and Information
2. You own all of the content and information you post on Facebook, and you can control how it is shared through your privacy and application settings. In addition:

For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.

http://www.facebook.com/legal/terms

Phil · « **Reply #65 on:** April 19, 2013, 17:42 »

thanks linda for replying and for being so open about it all.

Dimco · « **Reply #66 on:** April 20, 2013, 14:25 »

Hi Yay,

1. Discussing the issue with contributors = increased trust (+1), if it remains + depends on your move alone;

2. Touching sensitive part of the agreement like commissions especially in a what-it-looks-like decreased % = less trust (-1);

3. Trying to cover the deal with future trust due to increased sales = suspicious (mainly due to common sense and competitive experience) = less trust (-1);

4. Opt out = initially more trust, BUT: We have signed with Yay due to 50% commissions, extremely easy upload process, good $ commission, so what ., we give it a try, we cannot lose. From contributor point of view, more competition on the distributors side = possible better deals for photographers for future. This does not look like it. To me it seems that you are trying to increase overall business (which is very much ok) but on the expense on the photographer (not ok). Yay does not care if its income of $100 comes from 100 images sold or from 10.000. On the end fiscal year statement it is exactly the same, while for us contributors it makes a whole lot of difference. Don't get me wrong, i would like to sell as much as possible, but not below the industry standard subscription based $ per image downloaded (between $0.36 and $0.38). It is standard for me as it makes more that 50% income. I as a contributor am interested in raising this % and $, after all this was part of my strategy when i joined Yay. This is especially true for newcomers in the stock market. Sorry Yay, you have to develop your business using other added value services rather then undercutting the very branch that we both sit on. Customer value is not derived solely from price. Bottom line (-1);

5. We were here before Yay, meaning that our images were somehow distributed to end users before. Why should we agree to a less lucrative deal than that of even much stronger distributors? Yay, please try to look in another way to expand. Sorry (-1)

6. And one additional thing not very much connected with this offer, but not insignificant at all. You claim 50% commission (at least up to now) and yet at the same time you go on and negotiate partner programs from which the end user gets 25% of the deal. Sure, its 50% from the money you get, but still 25% for the photographer. Please enlighten me: Why should the photographers cut their 25% so that Yay can negotiate a deal with partner program? Correct me if I'm wrong, but its in Yay's part of the obligations (undertaken with the initial contributor-distributor deal) to go ahead and promote/grow the business by increasing the sales of the site the best way it can. We (contributors) are obliged to produce the best quality we can, which we more-or-less do. If you want/need to partner with other micro sites, I think its fair the the 25% comes from your cut and not from ours. It makes sense to me that you have positioned yourself between us and other distributor which at the end sells the image to buyer, so Yay and the partner should divide the 50% after the contributor has been paid if you want to continue being fair. Putting it differently, what stops Yay from making sister(s) company(ies) (that will get 25%) and than partnering with other (possibly several more) sites until the image is sold to end user? With such pipeline, its only a matter of time until we start discussing the fairness of 5% vs. 10% from the end price. This is what Getty is doing all along and that's why we all feel so frustrated and with less trust to any such moves from anyone, including Big stock as the trial ground for SS. The statement that you cannot control the end price in some deals is your problem to solve, don't throw it to us, please. (-2). Opt out form PP (+1), overall (-1)

My future move (hold submission, opt out or delete my portfolio) depends solely on what you decide to do. Sorry Yay, but it would be much easier move than that of IS. I have very little to loose.

So far (-4), one more (-) and something should be done. I think very fair feedback from me. I don't even bother writing if I do not believe you deserve it, Yay (this means that I'm still positive with Yay).

Sorry everyone for the large read,
Dimitar

Clairev · « **Reply #67 on:** April 21, 2013, 08:11 »

Last months were pretty interesting at Yaymicro, I am sure that they
do many things right.
So all this development is rather important for me.

I personally find the modified version much better then the original one.
I am on subscription sites and I am usually not complaining about low prices,
but I have serious allergy to see commissions under 0,2 USD.
(no matter what resolution / partner distribution...)
Most recently subs on Mostphotos and one of partners on Yaymicro, so
I am thankful for that detailed opt-out system there.
I will certainly hope, that EUR/USD exchange rate will hold.

And I am really glad to see, that people from Yaymicro are discussing this plan
here with us.

Linda - YayMicro · « **Reply #68 on:** April 22, 2013, 12:17 »

Thanks @ShadySue, we'll make sure to take note of that!

@Dimco
2: Well, noticing a glitch in commission and raising it 50% is an increase.
3: Nor sure what you're going at here. Of course we believe in increased sales. What we meant is that lower priced, targeted products can increase our overall sales, and that will generate more income than keeping thing at status quo will.
4&5: I understand your concern, and if our sales comes comes from sales at other sites where you have your images it makes sense. Our aim is not to get customers from competitors by lowing our prices, but to create products mainly for new customers. Growing by taking market shares from competitors is not easy, and not our main goal. For all sales we generate that isn't form a competitor every dollar will be a dollar extra in your account.
6: What stops us from making sister companies is ethics and morale. I also think most photographers would leave if we would do anything like that. We have a couple of "sister sites" today, but they use the YAY payment, so the commission to the photographer is the same as sales at YAY. As for commission on partner sales we get 60% on all new deals, and we split this 50/50 with our photogs = 30%. I'm sorry if you find that unfair, and that's why you can opt-out.

All in all, we understand your concerns, and we also don't expect you to agree with all of it. It will be up to you what you decide to do after taking an overall evaluation of what YAY has to offer.

@Clairev Thanks for your input! We think it's important to have an opt-out in place, making it easier for you to join in on what you believe in.

L:)

Dimco · « **Reply #69 on:** April 22, 2013, 15:50 »

Linda,

There are two issues here, end price in terms of $ and % comm's. I'm interested in both.

2: 44% is less than 50% but let's say that you will adjust that long term, so ok.

3: Put it in other words, lowering the end price will benefit mostly Yay as our images are distributed already to end user in some way. So the only beneficiary is bottom line Yay, while the photographers will get increased number of sales in the beginning, they stand to loose their overall income as the $ comm's decrease long term;

4&5: "Our aim is not to get customers from competitors by lowing our prices, but to create products mainly for new customers" this is my concern mostly. How are you going to secure this? Customers will not be "made" due to Yay's new plan, rather derived from existing one's. " For all sales we generate that isn't form a competitor every dollar will be a dollar extra in your account. " - But a dollar less I might add due to the fact that I'm already distributed by your competitor(s), so how will this new Yay's plan benefit me with lowered comm's?

6: So the 50% turned 30% and this is ok? That's exactly what i was commenting in my original post. You have pledged to keep 50% and yet came up with a scheme in which the 50% becomes 30%. Sorry, but it looks like to me that this 30% will soon become even less in some other plan.

I think it would be helpful if you start contributing and/or buying images from your site so that the things are looked at from several perspectives.

This is after all a partner deal, so both partners should benefit sustainably and i'm not convinced that this is the right thing for us photographers.

Best regards,
D

Linda - YayMicro · « **Reply #70 on:** April 22, 2013, 16:59 »

@dimco I think I answered your questions in my last post (we give 50% on all our earnings, we are targeting new markets etc.), and that we'll just have to agree to disagree on the last subjects.

L:)

noodle · « **Reply #71 on:** April 23, 2013, 14:32 »

Dear MS contributors:

WE ARE DOING THIS TO OURSELVES!!
IF WE AGREE TO UPLOAD AND SUPPORT SITES THAT PAY LOW LOW INSULTINGLY LOW COMMS, WELL THEN WE HAVE TO TAKE SOME OF THAT BLAME!

This includes myself, which I am now seriously pondering of only contributing to SS and to RM sites.

KimsCreativeHub · « **Reply #72 on:** September 19, 2013, 11:06 »

Hi there yay

This kind of creative thinking is what made istock a household name along with an amazing advertising campaign, creating a completely new segment of buyers!

And "inviting not forcing" contributors with opt outs is a really good thing.

BD · « **Reply #74 on:** September 19, 2013, 13:55 »

Quote from: KimsCreativeHub on September 19, 2013, 11:06

Hi there yay

This kind of creative thinking is what made istock a household name along with an amazing advertising campaign, creating a completely new segment of buyers!

And "inviting not forcing" contributors with opt outs is a really good thing.

I don’t know. Maybe I read it wrong, but it seems like you would make an average of about 4 or 5 cents every time someone uses a product through the new service? Am I wrong? Did I completely misread that? I am just looking at what they will be charging per month and what they say the average amount a customer downloads per month.

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Author Topic: YAY Newsletter: Information About New Product (Read 125387 times)

cthoman

luissantos84

CD123

Zelfit

CD123

rubyroo

Microbius

Linda - YayMicro

CD123

CD123

rubyroo

dirkr

fotografer

Linda - YayMicro

ShadySue

Phil

Dimco

Clairev

Linda - YayMicro

Dimco

Linda - YayMicro

noodle

KimsCreativeHub

Linda - YayMicro

BD

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