Contributor forum deceased?

[thijsdegraaf]

But that still gives me the right to grumble.

Of course, you have the right to grumble! Grumble away!

At the same time SS has the right to grumble back and stop you from grumbling too loud, in their house, on their money.

Grumble in their house at your own risk, but better grumble here, on Leaf's money.

It's simple, really 

It would be nice if they grumbled back
I try to grumble in a constructive way. (otherwise they are right) When my students (teacher, now retired) did that to me, I always explained and sometimes I even agreed with them. I even expected that they would tell me if they thought something wasn't right.
Shutterstock never answers. For example, I emailed them when someone had problems with stolen photos. Not even an answer came back. Example: https://forums.submit.shutterstock.com/topic/101367-stolen-logos-in-shutterstock/?tab=comments#comment-1871746

[Zero Talent]

But that still gives me the right to grumble.

Of course, you have the right to grumble! Grumble away!

At the same time SS has the right to grumble back and stop you from grumbling too loud, in their house, on their money.

Grumble in their house at your own risk, but better grumble here, on Leaf's money.

It's simple, really 

It would be nice if they grumbled back
I try to grumble in a constructive way. (otherwise they are right) When my students (now retired) did that to me, I always explained and sometimes I even agreed with them. I even expected that they would tell me if they thought something wasn't right.
Shutterstock never answers. For example, I emailed them when someone had problems with stolen photos. Not even an answer came back. Example: https://forums.submit.shutterstock.com/topic/101367-stolen-logos-in-shutterstock/?tab=comments#comment-1871746

My reply was in relation to this statement:

"the sad part is that we are severely censored on the forum. Say anything they don't like any your banished!"

Did they censor or ban you for your "constructive" grumbling? I don't think so.

What I said is that they have the right to stop people from "grumbling too loud", in other words badmouthing, defaming, or even insulting the company, in their house, and on their dime, no matter how justified one may think that the "loud grumbling" is.

The fact they don't respond to questions is a different topic, but I don't think they are obliged to do it in any way. Again, if you don't like it, just leave! It's that simple!

[thijsdegraaf]

My reply was in relation to this statement:

"the sad part is that we are severely censored on the forum. Say anything they don't like any your banished!"

Did they censor or ban you for your "constructive" grumbling? I don't think so.

What I said is that they have the right to stop people from "grumbling too loud", in other words badmouthing, defaming, or even insulting the company, in their house, and on their dime, no matter how justified one may think that the "loud grumbling" is.

The fact they don't respond to questions is a different topic, but I don't think they are obliged to do it in any way. Again, if you don't like it, just leave! It's that simple!
[/quote]

You're right, unfortunately you have people like that too. Own fault if they are banned.
Although I think that Shutterstock's behavior also reinforces this kind of behavior. I know someone who was always willing to help, advise, but was so annoyed by admins that he was banned forever. I never got an answer to that when I asked.
They really don't have to answer. But then a forum is useless. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if they cancel it. Of course without explanation.

[Zero Talent]

They really don't have to answer. But then a forum is useless. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if they cancel it. Of course without explanation.

I believe that you have to lower your expectations.

There are 2 main questions people expect answers for:
1. Why was my photo rejected.
2. Why was the price structure changed.

1. There are way too many submissions to be dealt individually.
Doing that would imply that contributors who figured out what it takes to avoid rejctions would have to wait way too much, while the least knowledgeble get their education. I am clearly against this, if my opinion matters.

2. You will never get a true answer or details about such strategic financial decisions, about their risk vs reward decisions, about their moves against competitors. Some of these decisions might be bad, but each company must also be free to dig its own grave.
And that's not specific to SS nor to this industry.

So manage your expectations, work around these annoyances, as long as this business still makes sense for you.

[Dodie]

And each time you had the option to walk away.

If you didn't, it means that you are still OK with the contract.
In @Noedelhap words, SS is still helping you build your house. 😉

I've read several times the word contract, used by some people.What are you talking about, there is no contract, never was. We are neither employees nor partners.

We agreed to accept SS's TOS (terms of service) which means they can change anything they want and we all are free to walk away any time we please.
All the rest is just noise, as said above.

[Firn]

And each time you had the option to walk away.

If you didn't, it means that you are still OK with the contract.
In @Noedelhap words, SS is still helping you build your house. 😉

I've read several times the word contract, used by some people.What are you talking about, there is no contract, never was. We are neither employees nor partners.

We agreed to accept SS's TOS (terms of service) which means they can change anything they want and we all are free to walk away any time we please.
All the rest is just noise, as said above.

How do you define Terms of Service? Because Wikipedia defines it as "legal agreement", which, then again, it defines as a "contract".
Also, did you read Shutterstock`s ToS? They define the relationship between them and their contributors as the one of  a "contractor" in their ToS.

[Dodie]

And each time you had the option to walk away.

If you didn't, it means that you are still OK with the contract.
In @Noedelhap words, SS is still helping you build your house. 😉

I've read several times the word contract, used by some people.What are you talking about, there is no contract, never was. We are neither employees nor partners.

We agreed to accept SS's TOS (terms of service) which means they can change anything they want and we all are free to walk away any time we please.
All the rest is just noise, as said above.

How do you define Terms of Service? Because Wikipedia defines it as "legal agreement", which, then again, it defines as a "contract".
Also, did you read Shutterstock`s ToS? They define the relationship between them and their contributors as the one of  a "contractor" in their ToS.

When reading the first paragraph of SS's Tos, everybody can understand what they understand by legal agreement. Wikipedia's definition (or mine) is not relevant, unless we insist on contradicting each other.

Yes, I've read every change in their Tos in the last 10 years but I didn't learn it by hart. Unfortunately, many people don't read it and turn the forum in social media.
I would be interested to see the part where SS clearly calls us contributors as contractors.
In fact there could be (are) some special contributors who are contractors but not the average contributor like myself.

[thijsdegraaf]

And each time you had the option to walk away.

If you didn't, it means that you are still OK with the contract.
In @Noedelhap words, SS is still helping you build your house. 😉

I've read several times the word contract, used by some people.What are you talking about, there is no contract, never was. We are neither employees nor partners.

We agreed to accept SS's TOS (terms of service) which means they can change anything they want and we all are free to walk away any time we please.
All the rest is just noise, as said above.

A strangulation contract  . No, of course there is no real contract. I didn't come across that on the Shutterstock forum (but didn't read everything). Most understand that they have the right, but disagree and / or are annoyed with the way it has been delivered.
I think everyone has weighed for themselves how to proceed now.
I did that at work too. Usually you go on, sometimes you go do something else. But it's nonsense to say that if you stay you can't protest.
The protests, by the way, had become much less on the forum. That had already been given up.
We're already talking about other things

[Zero Talent]

But it's nonsense to say that if you stay you can't protest.

Nobody told you that you can't protest. You can protest as much as you want. You just have to assume the consequences. 

[Zero Talent]

I've read several times the word contract, used by some people.What are you talking about, there is no contract, never was. We are neither employees nor partners.

We agreed to accept SS's TOS (terms of service) which means they can change anything they want and we all are free to walk away any time we please.
All the rest is just noise, as said above.

You are right!
We are not employees nor partners.

We are contractors (i.e. parties signing a contract) 

From the SS ToS: https://submit.shutterstock.com/legal/terms/

18. Miscellaneous

The relationship of the parties is that of independent contractors. There is no relationship of partnership, joint venture, employment, franchise or agency created hereby between the parties.

And here is the definition of ToS, ToU or T&C:

https://www.contractscounsel.com/t/us/terms-and-conditions

Terms and conditions are part of a that ensure parties understand their contractual rights and obligations. Parties draft them into a legal contract, also called a legal agreement, in accordance with local, state, and federal contract laws. They set important boundaries that all contract principals must uphold.

When you signed the ToS/contract you agreed to this:

f. Please note that Shutterstock reserves the right to modify these terms at any time in its sole discretion, it being understood that no changes shall apply to any pending arbitration proceeding commenced or legal claims asserted prior to such change. Shutterstock will notify you of any such change by an announcement on this page, your login page, and/or by other means to provide you the opportunity to review the modifications before they become effective. Modifications to these TOS will not apply retroactively. By continuing to make Content available through Shutterstock, you agree to be bound by all such changes. If you do not agree with any of the changes, please remove from Shutterstock, pursuant to the terms herein, all or that portion of your Content to which you do not wish the changes to apply.

There is no "exploitation", "slavery" or other marxist ideological concepts some of the protesters tend to use here.

You are free to walk away if you don't like it anymore. As simple as that!

Everything else is just noise!

[thijsdegraaf]

Totally agree. Except no one on the Shutterstock forum is talking about a contract. 

[thijsdegraaf]

Issues currently playing on the forum:
No more admins.
Dozens of pages of Chinese spam every time. Members then tries to bring up the old topics again.
Other spam with links that cannot be trusted.
Link to forum, which has suddenly disappeared.
Curious about how it is currently indicated to our customers how our photos are sold . Which isn't right (Photo sold more than twenty times is indicated as never sold). Before that, a rating of the photos. Funny thing was that I saw a 9, another a 10 and again another nothing. That suddenly disappeared.
Stolen photos
Help, explanation to new uploaders
And so on, and so on. Because of the spam, I've been logged out for some time, but you still miss your fellow forum members. Because it can also be fun.

[marthamarks]

Because of the spam, I've been logged out for some time, but you still miss your fellow forum members. Because it can also be fun.

This MSG is probably a better place for you. It won't always be the "friendliest" or the "easiest on the ego," but it's still a better spot to hang out than what you've just described.

Welcome aboard� from the fellow septuagenarian who approved your first post!

[thijsdegraaf]

Because of the spam, I've been logged out for some time, but you still miss your fellow forum members. Because it can also be fun.

This MSG is probably a better place for you. It won't always be the "friendliest" place or the "easiest on the ego" place, but it's still a better spot to hang out than what you've just described.

Welcome aboard� from the fellow septuagenarian who approved your first post!

Thanks Martha

[Zero Talent]

Welcome aboard� from the fellow septuagenarian who approved your first post!

Hmmm... Interesting. I also approved it. Maybe more than one approval is needed before a post becomes public. 🤔

[marthamarks]

Welcome aboard� from the fellow septuagenarian who approved your first post!

Hmmm... Interesting. I also approved it. Maybe more than one approval is needed before a post becomes public. 🤔

That might well be. Or maybe we two hit the "approve" button simultaneously. Or maybe a whole bunch of us old timers hit it simultaneously. Another great mystery to be solved� along with the contents of the now-infamous "Deleted" message.

Leaf knows, for sure.

[thijsdegraaf]

Welcome aboard� from the fellow septuagenarian who approved your first post!

Hmmm... Interesting. I also approved it. Maybe more than one approval is needed before a post becomes public. 🤔

Thank you too.  My first three answers had to be approved first. A great measure to keep the forum safe I think.

[thijsdegraaf]

The Shutterstockforum will be shut down on October 14, 2021  https://forums.submit.shutterstock.com/topic/124108-sunsetting-the-forum-when-one-door-shuts-another-one-opens/ 

Many new members for Microstock I suspect.

[gnirtS]

The only real surprise is this didn't happen sooner.
The SS bigwigs must have hated the thing - a place where contributors could openly discuss and criticise the SS corporate err "vision and decisions" as well as engaging in public shame over stolen material. They never put the resources into moderating it to their liking.

Im just amazed it lasted this long under the "new" SS management style.

I would guess in SSs ideal world no contributor would know any other contributor nor be able to discuss anything at all as a group, certainly not on any public forum or media.

[TonyD]

Thanks @For Real for the link.

Me wonders whether SS isn't being prepared for a sell off to an 'investment' group. When you're not prepared to invest in a couple of people to manage/moderate a forum it will get out of hand (sort of Godwin's Law-light). An unmoderated forum with all its adverse comments is going to be bad for business/stock price if your main interest is to get the stock price up so that all the senior management can cash out at the top.

Those guys are the insiders and must have a good idea of how the company is 'progressing' since the new rates for contributors were implemented. What if there's a trend by the major image factories to not give their new model-released work to SS because they can no longer make any money at SS? Then you know that in time your image base will become stale and that it's time to boost the stock price before you cash out. Any indications that the peasants are revolting must be quelled, otherwise a potential investor might be a little worried by the unrest among the natives/suppliers found on the forums.

Pure speculation on my part and only time will tell.

Hello I recognise you from the SS forum (but I haven't posted for a year) I had to google it because SS removed the forum link on the contributor page. I just found out today that they are shutting it down on the 14th Oct very sad but not exactly a shock.

[Digital]

Maybe someone could clone the forums and make them available with another url. It would be a pity for all that info to be gone.

[Microstockphoto]

goooooood riddens

[AJ Pinto]

zero talento so annoying but he has 1 talent.. to make  the discussion  more interesting or boring depending on te point of view.

[UPLOAD-UPLOAD-UPLOAD]

I'm not surprised the SS forums will be shut down comes October 14th
I was on it for about 2 years and the only thing I learned was I should never
have joined it.
For you SS forum members who don't know who I am:
Upload, upload upload!
10,000 or bust

[Year of the Dog]

goooooood riddens

My view too. Anything we could do there we can do here nobody from SS ever answered or helped.