Author Topic: Changes to the Referral program (Read 28242 times)

Noedelhap · « **Reply #50 on:** February 05, 2013, 19:27 »

Quote from: tickstock on February 05, 2013, 19:09

Quote from: Noedelhap on February 05, 2013, 19:03
Didn't we agree to a CONTRACT stating we would earn referral revenues for a lifetime?

Can they just breach the contract?
SHUTTERSTOCK RESERVES THE RIGHT TO MODIFY THESE TERMS AT ANY TIME AND TO NOTIFY YOU BY AN ANNOUNCEMENT ON YOUR LOGIN PAGE OF THE MODIFICATIONS. YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY ALL SUCH CHANGES. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH ANY OF THE CHANGES PLEASE REMOVE ALL OR THAT PORTION OF YOUR SUBMITTED CONTENT TO WHICH YOU DO NOT WISH THE CHANGES TO APPLY FROM THE SHUTTERSTOCK WEBSITE.

Okay. Fuck them.

shiyali · « **Reply #51 on:** February 05, 2013, 21:06 »

We do not really have "contracts" with the agencies. You agree to accept their conditions and they can change the terms and notify you of the changes. Then you have the choice to either leave the agency or accept the conditions. The word "contract" implies that both parties had some input into their mutual business arrangement, but that is not the case. It is a one-sided take it or leave it. A bit like renting a stall at the market to sell your stuff, if the landlord raises the rent you can either accept it (and the reduced profit) or quit and find a different market. But maybe the original market is still the best location for your products, so you put up with the higher rent.

robertosch · « **Reply #52 on:** February 06, 2013, 06:13 »

For those that have a SS account, they can see this link, after they are logged:

http://submit.shutterstock.com/refinfo.mhtml

So, if it's like this, it cannot be done. Am I wrong, or what?
Of course, the link will change, probably, shortly.

Caz · « **Reply #53 on:** February 06, 2013, 07:10 »

I have to say I'm gutted. I haven't had anything for sale on Shutterstock for many years but was happily making $75 payouts from referral earnings alone on referrals from way back when. Same happened with Fotolia before their time limit too, referred contributors from the site's start up were making me some nice money for nothing while I've had nothing for sale on their site for more than 5 years. I guess people like me are why it doesn't make any business sense for them to continue. Bah

travelstock · « **Reply #54 on:** February 06, 2013, 07:18 »

Quote from: shiyali on February 05, 2013, 21:06

We do not really have "contracts" with the agencies. You agree to accept their conditions and they can change the terms and notify you of the changes. Then you have the choice to either leave the agency or accept the conditions. The word "contract" implies that both parties had some input into their mutual business arrangement, but that is not the case. It is a one-sided take it or leave it. A bit like renting a stall at the market to sell your stuff, if the landlord raises the rent you can either accept it (and the reduced profit) or quit and find a different market. But maybe the original market is still the best location for your products, so you put up with the higher rent.

No this is more like you renting out the stall, and the renter telling you they've changed the contract in a way that lets them keep the stall but stop paying you rent for it. There's nothing left to do on your side of the contract with respect to previously referred contributors, just SS deciding to cancel payment as previously agreed.

Many contracts are created in a way where a standard set of terms is drawn up by one party on a take-it-or-leave-it basis - that doesn't mean that the weaker bargaining party has no rights or that alteration clauses can be read so widely. As with most commercial transactions, there is a contract involved - how its going to be interpreted really depends on whether anyone is prepared to challenge what is being done.

incarno · « **Reply #55 on:** February 06, 2013, 16:49 »

Not cool to see my Yuri-referral earnings go

Well but it was quite nice while it lasted

cthoman · « **Reply #56 on:** February 06, 2013, 17:46 »

Quote from: incarno on February 06, 2013, 16:49

Not cool to see my Yuri-referral earnings go Well but it was quite nice while it lasted

Dang! That would be nice. Maybe, they made this change because of you. Should we call it the "Incarno Rule" now?

Poncke · « **Reply #57 on:** February 06, 2013, 18:27 »

Quote

Hello everyone,

We apologize for any confusion.

The Referral Program page (http://submit.shutterstock.com/refinfo.mhtml) is for informational purposes only. It does not override Shutterstock’s Submitter Terms of Service (TOS). The email sent yesterday is simply an advance notice of a pending change to our Submitter TOS.

When the referral program re-launches on February 28, you will receive $0.04c for every referred download for a period of 2 years after a contributor has been approved.

Here are examples of some of the changes:

* If you refer someone and that contributor is approved on March 1, 2013, you will receive referral earnings of $0.04c per download for that contributor's downloads for the next 2 years (until March 1, 2015).

* If you referred someone 12 months ago (January 1, 2012), you will begin earning $0.04c for each download beginning on February 28, 2013, and you will continue to earn this rate until January 1, 2014.

* If you referred someone 5 years ago, those referral payments will end on February 28, 2013, because the contributor was approved over 2 years ago.

We hope the examples above help clarify the upcoming changes. If there are more questions, we encourage you to write in to us at [email protected].

Sincerely,
Anthony Correia
Director, Contributor Success
Shutterstock|Bigstock

crashoran · « **Reply #58 on:** February 06, 2013, 20:30 »

Quote from: Poncke on February 06, 2013, 18:27

Quote
Hello everyone,

We apologize for any confusion.

The Referral Program page (http://submit.shutterstock.com/refinfo.mhtml) is for informational purposes only. It does not override Shutterstock’s Submitter Terms of Service (TOS). The email sent yesterday is simply an advance notice of a pending change to our Submitter TOS.

When the referral program re-launches on February 28, you will receive $0.04c for every referred download for a period of 2 years after a contributor has been approved.

Here are examples of some of the changes:

* If you refer someone and that contributor is approved on March 1, 2013, you will receive referral earnings of $0.04c per download for that contributor's downloads for the next 2 years (until March 1, 2015).

* If you referred someone 12 months ago (January 1, 2012), you will begin earning $0.04c for each download beginning on February 28, 2013, and you will continue to earn this rate until January 1, 2014.

* If you referred someone 5 years ago, those referral payments will end on February 28, 2013, because the contributor was approved over 2 years ago.

We hope the examples above help clarify the upcoming changes. If there are more questions, we encourage you to write in to us at [email protected].

Sincerely,
Anthony Correia
Director, Contributor Success
Shutterstock|Bigstock

Why . do they release a statement on the basis of "confusion"? Nobody here is confused. They're simply ignoring the outrage we're expressing. Typical corporate robot response..

RacePhoto · « **Reply #59 on:** February 07, 2013, 02:23 »

Quote from: tickstock on February 05, 2013, 12:16

Quote from: gostwyck on February 05, 2013, 11:58
I'm hoping that by reducing the referral system they can pay more out to contributors instead because they're the people that are actually doing the work and generating the content.
Ha, brilliant! How much of a pay raise should we be expecting?

Easy one. Since they won't be paying that 3 cents or 4 cents anymore, why not give everyone at all levels a 2c raise.

Company wins, because they get 2c more (or 1 depending on what age you look at) And all of us get a 2c raise. Everyone wins, except the people who made good money on referrals. So the larger whole, more contributors, will profit more from their own work.

fotografer · « **Reply #60 on:** February 07, 2013, 04:05 »

I don't agree with what they are doing at all but if they are going to make cut backs I would rather it be on referrals where we are making money off other peoples' work than a cut in comissions on our own work.

Microbius · « **Reply #61 on:** February 07, 2013, 04:39 »

Quote from: RacePhoto on February 07, 2013, 02:23

Quote from: tickstock on February 05, 2013, 12:16
Quote from: gostwyck on February 05, 2013, 11:58
I'm hoping that by reducing the referral system they can pay more out to contributors instead because they're the people that are actually doing the work and generating the content.
Ha, brilliant! How much of a pay raise should we be expecting?

Easy one. Since they won't be paying that 3 cents or 4 cents anymore, why not give everyone at all levels a 2c raise.

Company wins, because they get 2c more (or 1 depending on what age you look at) And all of us get a 2c raise. Everyone wins, except the people who made good money on referrals. So the larger whole, more contributors, will profit more from their own work.

Honestly I don't think they will be making any more money because of these changes, I think it is to maintain their current profitability in light of the many Ex-Exclusives getting referred quicker than they can bring in new sales to compensate. But you are right, we are due a pay increase in any case.

Blackx · « **Reply #62 on:** February 07, 2013, 05:57 »

Quote from: Microbius on February 07, 2013, 04:39

Honestly I don't think they will be making any more money because of these changes, I think it is to maintain their current profitability in light of the many Ex-Exclusives getting referred quicker than they can bring in new sales to compensate.

Sorry, but I don't think this is correct. For profitability it doesn't matter if the new guys are selling anything or not, the referral payments are paid just from the actual sales. No sales, no payments to referrals.

leaf · « **Reply #63 on:** February 07, 2013, 07:30 »

Quote from: Blackx on February 07, 2013, 05:57

Quote from: Microbius on February 07, 2013, 04:39
Honestly I don't think they will be making any more money because of these changes, I think it is to maintain their current profitability in light of the many Ex-Exclusives getting referred quicker than they can bring in new sales to compensate.

Sorry, but I don't think this is correct. For profitability it doesn't matter if the new guys are selling anything or not, the referral payments are paid just from the actual sales. No sales, no payments to referrals.

agreed. It doesn't cost them any more to have more contributors. Their referral program costs are always going to stay in proportion to sales.

dirkr · « **Reply #64 on:** February 07, 2013, 08:49 »

Quote from: leaf on February 07, 2013, 07:30

Quote from: Blackx on February 07, 2013, 05:57
Quote from: Microbius on February 07, 2013, 04:39
Honestly I don't think they will be making any more money because of these changes, I think it is to maintain their current profitability in light of the many Ex-Exclusives getting referred quicker than they can bring in new sales to compensate.

Sorry, but I don't think this is correct. For profitability it doesn't matter if the new guys are selling anything or not, the referral payments are paid just from the actual sales. No sales, no payments to referrals.

agreed. It doesn't cost them any more to have more contributors. Their referral program costs are always going to stay in proportion to sales.

There's one more variable to factor in: The relation of people signing up via a referral link to those signing up without referral.

Assuming now many ex-exclusives coming in, and due to intensiv discussions on various boards most of them via a referral link (maybe more than average), and further assuming many of those have big portfolios with high sales potential, it may lead to higher referral costs.

Just guessing here, but I am sure SS has all the data to make some good predictions here.

RacePhoto · « **Reply #65 on:** February 08, 2013, 00:05 »

Here's an easy prediction, SS will make 3 cents more per download for everyone who joined in February 2011 and before. Every single sale from all the big time collections, will now be 3 cents more profitable. Every new member jumping over from IS will cost them 4 cents for two years, but their revenue from more high quality images, will also increase!

Please Microbius, think about this. 2011 Shutterstock generated revenues of $120.3 million, up 45.0% on the year, and you say it's not going to make any more money? What's 3 percent of 120 million? That's what they will make starting in Feb. Hint: 3.6 million dollars!

Quote from: dirkr on February 07, 2013, 08:49

Quote from: leaf on February 07, 2013, 07:30
Quote from: Blackx on February 07, 2013, 05:57
Quote from: Microbius on February 07, 2013, 04:39
Honestly I don't think they will be making any more money because of these changes, I think it is to maintain their current profitability in light of the many Ex-Exclusives getting referred quicker than they can bring in new sales to compensate.

Sorry, but I don't think this is correct. For profitability it doesn't matter if the new guys are selling anything or not, the referral payments are paid just from the actual sales. No sales, no payments to referrals.

agreed. It doesn't cost them any more to have more contributors. Their referral program costs are always going to stay in proportion to sales.

There's one more variable to factor in: The relation of people signing up via a referral link to those signing up without referral.

Assuming now many ex-exclusives coming in, and due to intensiv discussions on various boards most of them via a referral link (maybe more than average), and further assuming many of those have big portfolios with high sales potential, it may lead to higher referral costs.

Just guessing here, but I am sure SS has all the data to make some good predictions here.

crashoran · « **Reply #66 on:** February 08, 2013, 11:26 »

Walmart made profits of $15.7 billion last year and pay their workers minimum wage. History repeats itself people. No reason to expect Shutterstock to treat us like anything other than cheap employees.

crashoran · « **Reply #67 on:** February 26, 2013, 17:19 »

Still no response to our emails, forum posts, or Buzz responses.

Welcome to Shutterstock, a company that screws over contributors and completely ignores you.

cthoman · « **Reply #68 on:** February 26, 2013, 17:46 »

Quote from: crashoran on February 26, 2013, 17:19

Still no response to our emails, forum posts, or Buzz responses.

Welcome to Shutterstock, a company that screws over contributors and completely ignores you.

What response would have made you happy? It's not like they were going to change their mind. They can try to smooth it over with words, but it would still be the same deal in the end.

dirkr · « **Reply #69 on:** February 28, 2013, 10:05 »

Quote

To start, we're going to raise payouts from $0.03 to $0.04 cents per referred download. ... . These changes will become effective as of February 28, 2013 ....

At least that part hasn't happened yet. It's Feb 28, and all referred downloads are still reported with $0,03 each...

EmberMike · « **Reply #70 on:** February 28, 2013, 10:43 »

Stings a little extra to have my BDE for referral earnings ($18.15) just 2 days ago, right before this all comes to an end.

Farewell, referral earnings... it was good while it lasted.

cthoman · « **Reply #71 on:** February 28, 2013, 10:49 »

Quote from: EmberMike on February 28, 2013, 10:43

Stings a little extra to have my BDE for referral earnings ($18.15) just 2 days ago, right before this all comes to an end.

Farewell, referral earnings... it was good while it lasted.

I'm hoping it's not too bad and that some of my earners are under the 2 years.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #72 on:** February 28, 2013, 11:11 »

I do wonder whether their right to change the terms gives them the right to abandon the lifetime guarantee that they gave. Surely that promise explicitly ring-fenced the arrangement against the "we can do what we like" clause? It may have been an unwise promise but trying to unsay it years later strikes me as rather dodgy.

gostwyck · « **Reply #73 on:** February 28, 2013, 11:28 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on February 28, 2013, 11:11

I do wonder whether their right to change the terms gives them the right to abandon the lifetime guarantee that they gave. Surely that promise explicitly ring-fenced the arrangement against the "we can do what we like" clause? It may have been an unwise promise but trying to unsay it years later strikes me as rather dodgy.

I'd agree. If anyone took them to court over lost referral earnings I can't imagine that any judge would find in SS's favour.

Elenathewise · « **Reply #74 on:** February 28, 2013, 12:17 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on February 28, 2013, 11:11

I do wonder whether their right to change the terms gives them the right to abandon the lifetime guarantee that they gave. Surely that promise explicitly ring-fenced the arrangement against the "we can do what we like" clause? It may have been an unwise promise but trying to unsay it years later strikes me as rather dodgy.

I am sure there is a fine print somewhere that referral program terms are subject to change; just as all our "agreements" with stock agencies. And since the position of SS is very strong right now, they don't really need a super-attractive referral program - just look to the right at the "Earnings Ratings" in microstock poll results, those numbers alone would attract new contributors. So I am not surprised they changed the terms; and I am actually impressed they balanced the change with a 25% increase of short-term referral payments. Of course it would be nice if you could refer a few high-selling photogs and collect money for the rest of your life:) alas, this would be just too good to be true.

MicrostockGroup Sponsors

Author Topic: Changes to the Referral program (Read 28242 times)

Noedelhap

shiyali

robertosch

Caz

travelstock

incarno

cthoman

Poncke

crashoran

RacePhoto

fotografer

Microbius

Blackx

leaf

dirkr

RacePhoto

crashoran

crashoran

cthoman

dirkr

EmberMike

cthoman

BaldricksTrousers

gostwyck

Elenathewise

Related Topics

Sponsors

Microstock Poll Results

Sponsors