I think picking away similars is one of the toughest jobs of editing.  I can't help but think "what if a designer wants a little different look".  Generally I would guess I err on the side of including too many shots.

Do you think it is worthwhile to include variations in the 'smile' from closed lip smile to 'toothy smile' or is that easily overkill?

I would go with the second and lighten up the bg a bit.

Ah, but remember there are some buyers who always ask for more serious expressions.
Submit both, but leave some time between uploads.

Ah, but remember there are some buyers who always ask for more serious expressions.
Submit both, but leave some time between uploads.

Yeah, that is what I have done in the past and would be tempted to do with this case unless convinced otherwise.

Gostwyck makes a good point though, which is the reason persuading me to NOT upload both.  If there is only one image to pick from the buyers (hopefully) pick the only image available pushing that images stats (sell through rate) higher and thus pushing search rank higher.  If there are two images to pick from, those two images have to share the sales.  On sites like Dreamstime where more sales = a higher price/sale it is even more important to try and force sales on the higher ranked images by not having too many similars.   

That said, if you have worthwhile similars you increase your overall database exposure getting more images on page 1 or 2 or 10, wherever the buyer is looking...

I preferred the darker bg myself - it gave her better contrast on the back of the hair, and also more of a sense of being 'inside' the shop.

But as Gostwyck said, Sean and Lisa are the experts on 'what sells'.

Yeah, I was actually planning on uploading a dark background and light background to compare the results.  As Yuri is pretty set on the light background strategy (and Sean obviously agrees) that is probably the better seller.  It is certainly less distracting.

But back to the subject of the thread - I'm not sure what the strategy of uploading different shots to different sites would prove. I think I would just end up creating more work for myself editing more images and end up not knowing anything more than when I started. 

don�t have anything to add regarding the pictures but need to say how is possible that you are still learning regarding stock? curious how can someone so experienced like you still with doubts?

How is it possible to ever stop learning (about stock or any subject)? That's what makes it interesting and that's what makes the difference between the top sellers and the rest.

Post-process 2 or 3, then maybe you could upload the toothy smile and see how it does, sales-wise. If after a couple of months, no sales, upload another.

Quote from: gostwyck on March 22, 2011, 06:52

Quote from: luissantos84 on March 22, 2011, 06:46

don�t have anything to add regarding the pictures but need to say how is possible that you are still learning regarding stock? curious how can someone so experienced like you still with doubts?

How is it possible to ever stop learning (about stock or any subject)? That's what makes it interesting and that's what makes the difference between the top sellers and the rest.

so true, I agree 100% as I do learn everyday but I am very new to stock regarding Tyler, yourself or others in this post, I found this great but after so many years doing the same ligthing setups, directing models and uploading/selling it is hard to imagine someone with doubts

Not even Sean stop learning!

We would be in trouble if we stop.

yes, they are different enough - but Dreamstime won't think so

I prefer the second one, but others may well like/need the first one; so, upload just one on Dreamstime
and both on all other sites leaving decision to buyers where they can

If I was going to go with my instinct, or what I have 'always done' I would just take them both, but I have been thinking lately that perhaps I should change strategies and edit much much tighter than I generally do.  Like cut down my selects by half.  I have tried that in a couple shoots recently and am still pondering and looking at the results but I am always interested in hearing what strategy others have.  It is important not to sit still or think we have things 'figured out'

After 6 years I've still not varied from the conclusion that trying to predict which images out of a series will be the most popular is almost impossible. Sometimes a potential best-seller is fairly obvious but that's about it. The images that do well on one agency may well bomb on others and vice versa. Sometimes the initial images of a series will have disappointing sales but then, some months later, I can upload another image from that series ... and it does take off. Weird.

Great series, Tyler!  If I had to choose one of the other photo only, it would be the second one.  I like your edit, where you have lightened the background.  Don't like the "nuked" background though, as it is less obvious where she is. 

To me, those two shots are different enough to upload both.  I have heard Europeans prefer less toothy grins (you would know if that's true better than I would) and Americans tend to go with the bigger smiles.  So different markets for each. 

Not only are the smiles different, but the reserved smile is a wider shot, with more copyspace.  I would probably crop the toothier one to a square to better emphasize the girl, then upload the other one wide.  Hopefully that would differentiate them enough. 

But like Gostwyck says, it is impossible to know for sure which will be the better seller. 

Thanks for the thoughts everyone.

Good points on the nuked background, I agree, since I went to the work of actually shooting in a grocery store it is smart to retain some of that information.  That said it is also nice to isolate the subject over a near white background making the background very unnoticeable offering just a hint of location.

I have also noticed the european / american preference.   If someone see's an image of an overly smiley person on an advertisement here they say it looks 'american' (for better or worse).  There is an obvious preference for more natural, less 'over the top' models in Europe contrasted with the over the top - barbie type model preference (with overdone smile) in America.  Teeth for example can be a little crooked or a small gap or a shade or two off snow white.  The first time I saw such models in an ad I was quite surprised.

I did a few microstock shoots in New York a couple years ago and had an a-ha moment.  I realized how people get those models with the big happy smiles... you shoot in America.  as they say... 'everything is bigger in America' ... the smiles are no exception

CERTAINLY WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY OVERKILL!!!!!!! that is not similar its the same photo!