Here is what Occupy Wall Street is about:
http://ireport.cnn.com/blogs/ireport-blog/2011/10/13/ireporters-define-occupy-wall-street-movement?hpt=hp_c2

Comparing the Arab Spring to Occupy Wall Street is ridiculous stretch. Wanting jobs and government accountability for their actions regarding bank bailouts in a Federal Republic is far different than risking your life to bring down totalitarian regimes in order to achieve a Democratic government.

New York Mayor Bloomberg has said they can stay and protest as long as they want, btw.

ETA: Definition of Federal Republic (scroll up):
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2128.html#us

"Of course you can't compare USA with totalitarian regimes, but if you look at it that way, you've missed the whole point (I explained it already "

That is precisely what your video does. It compares a protest over income inequality and a 9% unemployment rate directly to the Arab spring where people have been murdered in the streets. On Wall Street, there have been a few instances of police violence with batons and pepper spray, but these people have never been told that they can't peacefully protest and they definitely haven't been shot at.

What did you explain already?

"First of, it's not my video, I didn't make it. I just think it's something worth looking at, since it concerns all of us."

Sorry, I think it is pointless propaganda. It implies that protesters of 9% unemployment and unfair bank bailouts some how equally compares to people dying for democracy in the Middle East.


"If the protesters would step it up, they would too and bring in national guard."

Step it up to what? Breaking windows and burning buildings. What change would that bring? Moving offices to safer locations?

"but many were arrested for no reason, surely very undemocratic"

I'm sure some were arrested for good reasons and I'm sure some were not. You would have total anarchy without a police force to manage hundreds of thousands of people with no organized leaders.

I'm sure some were arrested for good reasons and I'm sure some were not. You would have total anarchy without a police force to manage hundreds of thousands of people with no organized leaders.

Well, that could have been said by Assad's spokesman, or King Hamad's, Mubarak's....

You're wrong when you say you can't compare a protest against unemployment and income inequality with the "Arab Spring", poverty and rising food prices were precisely the things that triggered it (remember the unemployed guy who set himself on fire after being forced to close his illegal stall?).

It doesn't mean the forms of government are equally brutal or arbitrary in treatment of citizens. what it does mean is that the things that people worry about all over the world are not what sort of government rules over them, they are the things that directly affect whether or not they have food for their kids today.

Quote from: retrorocket on October 13, 2011, 16:24

I'm sure some were arrested for good reasons and I'm sure some were not. You would have total anarchy without a police force to manage hundreds of thousands of people with no organized leaders.

Well, that could have been said by Assad's spokesman, or King Hamad's, Mubarak's....

You're wrong when you say you can't compare a protest against unemployment and income inequality with the "Arab Spring", poverty and rising food prices were precisely the things that triggered it (remember the unemployed guy who set himself on fire after being forced to close his illegal stall?).

It doesn't mean the forms of government are equally brutal or arbitrary in treatment of citizens. what it does mean is that the things that people worry about all over the world are not what sort of government rules over them, they are the things that directly affect whether or not they have food for their kids today.

If people at OWS were starving and wanting food for their kids then it would be comparable. This protest is mainly twenty somethings wanting jobs that go with their degrees and not crappy retail jobs. The economy sucks right now but it will come back and those jobs will appear. A lot of other folks want to bring down capitalism and replace it with something undefined. Perhaps socialism, communism, or whatever. They're taking a puff and passing it around.

It's not the protest that I have a problem with. I fully support their right to protest. The video implies similarities between the Iranian, Syrian, and US government. That's nonsense.

All political systems are designed to protect the interests of the ruling elite, whether it is a democracy like the US or India or Greece, or a dictatorship like Saudi, or Syria or Burma, or a theocracy like Iran. Revolutions don't liberate people, if successful they install a new elite.

If the American ruling elite believed it was going to be replaced by a new order, I'm sure the response would be just as violent at any Middle Eastern despot's, and the government would justify it by saying it was protecting freedom and democracy against godless anarchists and revolutionaries.

I'm all for the Occupy Wall street protests, but I agree that the video is off the mark trying to make the comparison to the Arab spring protests. Also, the police arrests (brutality?) shown in the video has nothing to do with Obama and Clinton, it as to do with the local authorities, the mayor, the police department, the individual police officers. Trying to make the comparison to the Arab Spring delegitimizes the protests IMO. 

@fujiko

"I like your comparison of the reasons behind the protest to the belief around Santa and Easter."

These protesters seem to want some form of socialism to make things more equal, right? That would require an even larger central government. If you can't trust the politicians with allowing free speech, would you be so naive to trust them to equally redistribute all the money from the banks and the rich people?

"The protests don't happen because they lost trust on politicians, the protests happen because the latests politics consists only on saving the rich at expenses of the poor, bailouts to save banks or companies that give huge bonuses."

If the government was smaller and had less power then there would have been no safety net for banks. They would have gone out of business and no CEOs would have received big bonuses at our expense. If we the tax payers put less money into the system then the politicians have less money to spend on their corporate sponsors.

"It will grow and spread because things are not going any better and politicians are acting against their own people. It's history unfolding."

So will this change be the result of all these people voting or something else?

@Ithn

"Oh yeah, jobs will just appear   I see that's the plan nowadays, lets wait and stuff will appear... "

Nice try, but I will explain it to you anyways. The market is cyclical. It expands and contracts. In a recession, businesses cut jobs and during an expansion they add jobs. It's not magic.

What Does Business Cycle Mean?
The recurring and fluctuating levels of economic activity that an economy experiences over a long period of time. The five stages of the business cycle are growth (expansion), peak, recession (contraction), trough and recovery. At one time, business cycles were thought to be extremely regular, with predictable durations, but today they are widely believed to be irregular, varying in frequency, magnitude and duration.

Since the World War II, most business cycles have lasted three to five years from peak to peak. The average duration of an expansion is 44.8 months and the average duration of a recession is 11 months. As a comparison, the Great Depression - which saw a decline in economic activity from 1929 to 1933 - lasted 43 months.

That's from:
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/businesscycle.asp#axzz1alrj1Zgd

"10 years ago we had, Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.
Now we have, NO JOBS, NO HOPE AND NO CASH". 

author unknown. -

A clever play on words/history but one that has not intellectual merit at all.

@fujiko

"I like your comparison of the reasons behind the protest to the belief around Santa and Easter."

These protesters seem to want some form of socialism to make things more equal, right? That would require an even larger central government. If you can't trust the politicians with allowing free speech, would you be so naive to trust them to equally redistribute all the money from the banks and the rich people?

"The protests don't happen because they lost trust on politicians, the protests happen because the latests politics consists only on saving the rich at expenses of the poor, bailouts to save banks or companies that give huge bonuses."

If the government was smaller and had less power then there would have been no safety net for banks. They would have gone out of business and no CEOs would have received big bonuses at our expense. If we the tax payers put less money into the system then the politicians have less money to spend on their corporate sponsors.

"It will grow and spread because things are not going any better and politicians are acting against their own people. It's history unfolding."

So will this change be the result of all these people voting or something else?

@Ithn

"Oh yeah, jobs will just appear   I see that's the plan nowadays, lets wait and stuff will appear... "

Nice try, but I will explain it to you anyways. The market is cyclical. It expands and contracts. In a recession, businesses cut jobs and during an expansion they add jobs. It's not magic.

What Does Business Cycle Mean?
The recurring and fluctuating levels of economic activity that an economy experiences over a long period of time. The five stages of the business cycle are growth (expansion), peak, recession (contraction), trough and recovery. At one time, business cycles were thought to be extremely regular, with predictable durations, but today they are widely believed to be irregular, varying in frequency, magnitude and duration.

Since the World War II, most business cycles have lasted three to five years from peak to peak. The average duration of an expansion is 44.8 months and the average duration of a recession is 11 months. As a comparison, the Great Depression - which saw a decline in economic activity from 1929 to 1933 - lasted 43 months.

That's from:
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/businesscycle.asp#axzz1alrj1Zgd

Yes they add jobs during expansion.... nad it is happening, they are adding jobs. In China. You seem to have forgotten while pondering that wonderful model that the US f.e. isn't actually the whole world, they are just 4-5% of its population.

Ideological definition does not play well anymore in this world. Success speaks for itself. You seem to still live in a world of yesterday and refuse to hear the message of change, unfortunately.

Yes they add jobs during expansion.... nad it is happening, they are adding jobs. In China. You seem to have forgotten while pondering that wonderful model that the US f.e. isn't actually the whole world, they are just 4-5% of its population.

When did I say that the US is the whole world? I just gave you a quick definition of how business cycles work.

I know China is doing well, they make nearly everything we buy.

Are you saying communism is the answer? Or are you saying something else?
[/quote]

I think plenty of people before my message have answered your questions. I don't know who you are either nor do I care, but I am not afraid of ideological definitions and a good dialogue.

However, ideologies are what politicians or philosophers use to spread their ideas and seek followers, or take control of the public. Our commoners care more about food on the table and day-to-day living. If the commoners are unhappy and hungry, it doesn't matter if they are Americans, Arabians, Chinese or Russian, they will deliver the messages to the government. You cannot support the freedom of speech other countries and suppress it at home.

"Ideological definition does not play well anymore in this world. Success speaks for itself. You seem to still live in a world of yesterday and refuse to hear the message of change, unfortunately."


You're anonymous. You can say anything you want. Why are you scared of ideological definition?

You can't create a new government without defining what it is. If you tell people we need to change and they say, "What kind of change?" You can't say, "I'm not sure how to define it. "