Author Topic: iPhone 11 Pro's computational photography (Read 9039 times)

charged · « **on:** November 15, 2019, 02:46 »

Currently I own the iPhone 11 Pro. For the previous few iPhones I've owned, I've always used Lightroom Mobile App to take important photos, because it has the RAW feature. Today I had hunch that RAW has met its match in computational photography. So today while I was at the mechanics I took some photos of their workshop with both the iPhone default camera app and Adobe's Lightroom Mobile App. In the RAW file from Lightroom Mobile I can see the details in the highlights are not kept well. Whereas in the iPhone's default camera app, the details in the highlights are well preserved. I did a quick google search but I didn't see anyone doing a review of iPhone camera app Vs Adobe Lightroom's RAW capable software.

I'm mostly wondering if I can stop using LR Mobile's app all together? It is a hassle to use, versus the default iPhone camera. Especially if the iPhone default camera app delivers superior photos because of computational photography.

Thoughts?

Edit: I took a better look at some of the other photos from today from both the default iPhone camera app, and LR Mobile RAW photos. Hands down the iPhone photos are better. Computational photography is clearly winning out.

qunamax · « **Reply #1 on:** November 15, 2019, 10:36 »

Firstly, are you sure the two photos have absolutely identical exposures, f-stop, shutter speed and ISO? Also identical compositions, FOV and location - I'm sure you didn't use tripod, but at least similar placement.
If the exposures are identical it makes no much sense, since the default camera app also begins it's processing journey with a captured raw file to produce the final jpeg.
Unless the default app is faking details in highlights, they should be present in the raw file in Lightroom too.
There is also a possibility that default app takes multiple exposures behind the curtain and combining them for optimal results.
That's why we don't like phones, too much trickery and relativity.

increasingdifficulty · « **Reply #2 on:** November 15, 2019, 11:21 »

Quote from: qunamax on November 15, 2019, 10:36

There is also a possibility that default app takes multiple exposures behind the curtain and combining them for optimal results.

Yes, that is exactly what it does.

Very interesting, would be fun to try myself. The resulting 8-bit image could indeed retain more usable information than the RAW file, but what would be REALLY cool is if the phone could output a 16-bit TIFF from the multiple exposures! Can it do that?

Anyway, for still subjects this could work great, but as always, for fast moving subjects you would run into trouble. Try doing "computational photography" of a bird flying across the frame...

Zero Talent · « **Reply #3 on:** November 15, 2019, 11:47 »

Quote from: charged on November 15, 2019, 02:46

Currently I own the iPhone 11 Pro. For the previous few iPhones I've owned, I've always used Lightroom Mobile App to take important photos, because it has the RAW feature. Today I had hunch that RAW has met its match in computational photography. So today while I was at the mechanics I took some photos of their workshop with both the iPhone default camera app and Adobe's Lightroom Mobile App. In the RAW file from Lightroom Mobile I can see the details in the highlights are not kept well. Whereas in the iPhone's default camera app, the details in the highlights are well preserved. I did a quick google search but I didn't see anyone doing a review of iPhone camera app Vs Adobe Lightroom's RAW capable software.

I'm mostly wondering if I can stop using LR Mobile's app all together? It is a hassle to use, versus the default iPhone camera. Especially if the iPhone default camera app delivers superior photos because of computational photography.

Thoughts?

Edit: I took a better look at some of the other photos from today from both the default iPhone camera app, and LR Mobile RAW photos. Hands down the iPhone photos are better. Computational photography is clearly winning out.

Most computational processing done by smartphones today, is not different that what can be achieved, manually, in PS and LR.
Take a bunch of RAW files and combine them using either the HDR option, or the stack them as smart objects in PS using the median function (or a combination of both), and you'll get similar results, while preserving your creative freedom.

The only big advantage new smartphones have is the ability to take those multiple shots much faster (especially since many of them are already in the buffer, before the shutter button is pressed)

charged · « **Reply #4 on:** November 15, 2019, 12:47 »

Thanks for the comments guys...thoughts off the top of my head is, which method of taking photos with my iPhone is the least amount of hassle to get a good enough quality photo. In my simple minded head, it seems clearly the iPhone camera app with computational photography is far superior than the LR Mobile RAW image that I saw. It was so much better that I wasn't even confident I'd be able to replicate it by tweaking the RAW file in Lightroom desktop. And I think that is perhaps more due to the fact that it seemed like the RAW files looked subpar. At 100% I think there is still no comparison between an iPhone RAW file vs a top of the line DSLR raw file, DSLR is much better. And as it been already pointed out, computational photography merges many images that the iPhone is taking at many settings, versus one RAW file.

I've also watched numerous youtube videos this morning of people comparing iPhone 11 Pro photos vs top of the line DSLR photos and it was quite hard to see the difference at zoomed out view. I'm sure at 100% view, everyone can see the difference.

MysteryShot · « **Reply #5 on:** November 15, 2019, 18:24 »

Try (Cortex Camera app) it uses multiple exposures to combine one final image in jpeg or even dng, it is the same like on the sony slr "Handheld twilight mode"

NeonRobot · « **Reply #6 on:** November 15, 2019, 19:49 »

Maybe it is not so bad in terms of dynamic range. But in terms of pure resolution it is cr#p.
1/2.55 size explains all. Nokia 808 with its 1/1.2 still on the top.

mino216 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 17, 2019, 01:54 »

Quote from: spacedrone808 on November 15, 2019, 19:49

Maybe it is not so bad in terms of dynamic range. But in terms of pure resolution it is cr#p.
1/2.55 size explains all. Nokia 808 with its 1/1.2 still on the top.

The thing is that the sensor in Nokia 808 is horrible, especially in DR. BTW, some smartphones today gave a big 1/1.33 sensors (the new Samsung 108MPx sensor). I would say that todays smartphone far exceeds Nokia in noise, resolution, DR and delth of field as well (it was F2.4 only).

mino216 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2019, 01:57 »

Quote from: increasingdifficulty on November 15, 2019, 11:21

Quote from: qunamax on November 15, 2019, 10:36
There is also a possibility that default app takes multiple exposures behind the curtain and combining them for optimal results.

Yes, that is exactly what it does.

Very interesting, would be fun to try myself. The resulting 8-bit image could indeed retain more usable information than the RAW file, but what would be REALLY cool is if the phone could output a 16-bit TIFF from the multiple exposures! Can it do that?

Anyway, for still subjects this could work great, but as always, for fast moving subjects you would run into trouble. Try doing "computational photography" of a bird flying across the frame...

Adobe Lightroom does exactly that, 16bit HDR files from three exposures. Just change PRO mode to HDR. The DR will be great but the resolution (sharpness) will be a little bit lower than with single exposure RAW files.

NeonRobot · « **Reply #9 on:** November 17, 2019, 09:56 »

Quote from: mino216 on November 17, 2019, 01:54

Quote from: spacedrone808 on November 15, 2019, 19:49
Maybe it is not so bad in terms of dynamic range. But in terms of pure resolution it is cr#p.
1/2.55 size explains all. Nokia 808 with its 1/1.2 still on the top.

The thing is that the sensor in Nokia 808 is horrible, especially in DR. BTW, some smartphones today gave a big 1/1.33 sensors (the new Samsung 108MPx sensor). I would say that todays smartphone far exceeds Nokia in noise, resolution, DR and delth of field as well (it was F2.4 only).

DR is yes, pretty bad (no one cancel braketing), but i was speaking about resolution. Huawei P30 Pro is worser about 10%. Looking forward regarding Huawei Mate 30 Pro 1/1.5 and Xiaomi with 1/1.33 sensors.

But iphone in terms of resolution is a complete joke.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2019, 17:25 »

Quote from: spacedrone808 on November 17, 2019, 09:56

Quote from: mino216 on November 17, 2019, 01:54
Quote from: spacedrone808 on November 15, 2019, 19:49
Maybe it is not so bad in terms of dynamic range. But in terms of pure resolution it is cr#p.
1/2.55 size explains all. Nokia 808 with its 1/1.2 still on the top.

The thing is that the sensor in Nokia 808 is horrible, especially in DR. BTW, some smartphones today gave a big 1/1.33 sensors (the new Samsung 108MPx sensor). I would say that todays smartphone far exceeds Nokia in noise, resolution, DR and delth of field as well (it was F2.4 only).

DR is yes, pretty bad (no one cancel braketing), but i was speaking about resolution. Huawei P30 Pro is worser about 10%. Looking forward regarding Huawei Mate 30 Pro 1/1.5 and Xiaomi with 1/1.33 sensors.

But iphone in terms of resolution is a complete joke.

I'd like my DSLR to have computational photography software and processing. That would make me happy.

Quote from: charged on November 15, 2019, 12:47

Thanks for the comments guys...thoughts off the top of my head is, which method of taking photos with my iPhone is the least amount of hassle to get a good enough quality photo.

That describes the product perfectly, phone photos are, just good enough.

Chichikov · « **Reply #11 on:** November 18, 2019, 07:22 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on November 17, 2019, 17:25

Quote from: spacedrone808 on November 17, 2019, 09:56
Quote from: mino216 on November 17, 2019, 01:54
Quote from: spacedrone808 on November 15, 2019, 19:49
Maybe it is not so bad in terms of dynamic range. But in terms of pure resolution it is cr#p.
1/2.55 size explains all. Nokia 808 with its 1/1.2 still on the top.

The thing is that the sensor in Nokia 808 is horrible, especially in DR. BTW, some smartphones today gave a big 1/1.33 sensors (the new Samsung 108MPx sensor). I would say that todays smartphone far exceeds Nokia in noise, resolution, DR and delth of field as well (it was F2.4 only).

DR is yes, pretty bad (no one cancel braketing), but i was speaking about resolution. Huawei P30 Pro is worser about 10%. Looking forward regarding Huawei Mate 30 Pro 1/1.5 and Xiaomi with 1/1.33 sensors.

But iphone in terms of resolution is a complete joke.

I'd like my DSLR to have computational photography software and processing. That would make me happy.

Quote from: charged on November 15, 2019, 12:47
Thanks for the comments guys...thoughts off the top of my head is, which method of taking photos with my iPhone is the least amount of hassle to get a good enough quality photo.

That describes the product perfectly, phone photos are, just good enough.

I'd like my DSLR to have a phone module, so I can let my phone at home… :p

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #12 on:** November 18, 2019, 10:32 »

Quote from: Chichikov on November 18, 2019, 07:22

I'd like my DSLR to have a phone module, so I can let my phone at home… :p

I've been saying that for years, then it would indeed be a Camera Phone.

There are some real uses, like send a photo, right when you take it. Wouldn't need all kinds of apps and services, just a phone that could send images to email?

Yes a camera should have a phone built in, and yes new cameras, like a mirrorless should have the computational photography technology to make them so much superior like tiny sensor, tiny plastic lens, tiny phone, photos.

And yes, then I could call home (even though I have a cell phone that makes phone calls?) and cameras that are good cameras.

stockastic · « **Reply #13 on:** November 18, 2019, 12:24 »

Another misleading and over-hyped buzzword like "AI". We've all been doing computational photography for years. The iPhone 11 dials up DR compression, saturation, mid-tone contrast and maybe a couple other things - resulting in photos that reliably elicit "stunning" and "awesome" from the average person.

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Author Topic: iPhone 11 Pro's computational photography (Read 9039 times)

charged

qunamax

increasingdifficulty

Zero Talent

charged

MysteryShot

NeonRobot

mino216

mino216

NeonRobot

Uncle Pete

Chichikov

Uncle Pete

stockastic

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