For those who celebrate today, Merry Christmas!    For everyone, may your Winter be warmed by friendship and love.  (Except you Australians complaining about the heat, go tan or something)

Well said, Uncle Pete!

Well said, Uncle Pete!

Just some historical bits, which always amused me. Some of that comes from science and archaeology interests. Native Americans had wood circles, poles, that traced the movements of the Sun and Moon. There are the more obvious, the Mayan's, the Egyptians and of course much of the more popular Neolithic people from the UK.

Almost every culture has the flood story. Bits of religion from one to another are shared and traded. Oh or embraced and adopted, what people now are offended by, cultural appropriation.  No one owns the seasons, the Moon, the tilt of the Earth, or the Sun. But it seems like the obvious, with no books, no tv, no writing, and back to the time when people were making tools by banging rocks together, the sky and the season, were the most important source of observation, as well as critical to life.

Religion, whatever someone chooses, is based on the wisdom of the tribe. It's how knowledge was shared.

Yes, they didn't say the Earth was round, but well before the early navigators set out to dispel false fears and assumptions, the ancients saw the obvious that the shadow of a stick, traced a line, as the Sun moved. And they knew that everything was circular and round, not flat. Ethnocentrism just taught, we are the center of the universe. That doesn't make it a fact.

And Santa Sloth is real, he brought me gifts last night. I don't want to hear from all you evil skeptics. I know he's real! I got a box of chocolates and a hand blown race car ornament for the tree. Proof!

Uncle Pete, you are an atheist. Are you denying the fact that Je.sus was born on December 25th?

Go for it. Even the greatest theologians don't know the exact date when Jesus was actually born. He was dead for a long time, before Christianity became a religion. The date is a celebration and the date was selected for the basis of adopting Pagan holidays to convert people. Look what a wonderful job and how well that worked? ps for the haters of the world? Jesus was a Jew!

Go for it. Even the greatest theologians don't know the exact date when Jesus was actually born.

True. Here are some other fun-facts about the how traditions of Christmas started (at least according to a documentary I watched )

Santa Claus was real. Saint Nicholas was born to a wealthy family but was orphaned when he was very young and inherited his parent's wealth. He went to live with his uncle in a monastery and later trained with the clergy. He gave away most of his money to the poor by climbing up on their roofs and dropping gold coins down their chimneys which fell into the stockings hanging by the fireplace. He later became a bishop (hence the red outfit) and candy canes are supposed to represent the bishop crook/staff that they carry.  Children later called him Sinta Claus, which became Santa.

A lot of other traditions date back to when Christians were still being persecuted. Apparently someone once saw a small fir tree growing under a large oak and proclaimed that should be their symbol of new hope.

Yes, no-one knew when Jesus was born. They chose the time to celebrate *-Mass in December after the winter solstice - because the beginning of longer days and more light was also symbolic to them. They also decided to include a lot of pagan symbols, such as mistletoe, etc, so as to allow more non-Christian people to join in their festivities.

And yes, according to many scholars, most of the gospels of the New Testament were written up to 300 or 400 hundred years later.

Happy holidays everyone!

Jesus was a Jew!

Even more: a circumcised Jew! Imagine that! 😄

Luke 2:21: �And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.�

Quote from: Uncle Pete on December 26, 2023, 12:06

Jesus was a Jew!

Even more: a circumcised Jew! Imagine that! 😄

Luke 2:21: �And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.�

Yes, he grew up in a Jewish family and was raised as a Jew. But was he a Jew? If you believe religion and historical facts, then he can hardly be called a Jew.
You are a Zero Talent atheist.

Quote from: stoker2014 on December 27, 2023, 04:52

 If you believe religion and historical facts, then he can hardly be called a Jew.

Facts are nothing to "believe" in. Unlike religion, they are not optional.

And of course he was a jew. Which historical fact is supposed to contradict this?

These are standard questions for atheists. There are no answers to them that would suit atheists.

Quote from: Zero Talent on December 26, 2023, 18:04

Quote from: Uncle Pete on December 26, 2023, 12:06

Jesus was a Jew!

Even more: a circumcised Jew! Imagine that! 😄

Luke 2:21: �And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.�

Yes, he grew up in a Jewish family and was raised as a Jew. But was he a Jew? If you believe religion and historical facts, then he can hardly be called a Jew.
You are a Zero Talent atheist.

Yes he was born in Bethlehem, no wait he was from Nazareth?    He didn't like the way things were done and eventually preached his own ideas. None of this has anything to do with being an atheist, or anti anything.

Facts:
JC was born Jewish and practiced first-century Judaism religion.
Jesus' dominant religious influence was Judaism, as he grew up in a Jewish environment and regularly attended synagogue worship.
Jesus mainly preached in line with Judaism and borrowed teachings from the Mosaic Laws and the Hebrew Bible.

Many Orthodox Christians annually celebrate Christmas Day on or near January 7 to remember JC's birth, described in the Christian Bible.

Real history, is well accepted by scholars and Judaeo-Christians, theologians, and philosophers. Educated people who can go beyond their narrow beliefs or extremist diversions. The New Testament and the Old share stories, wisdom and holiday dates, with the Pagans, Germanic tribes, Celts, Norse, Natives around the world, and many other groups. There is nothing exclusive, and hardly anything original. Before writing, these same stories were told in the oral tradition, and spread through civilization.

R E L A X please?

For those who celebrate today, Merry Christmas!    For everyone, may your Winter be warmed by friendship and love.  (Except you Australians complaining about the heat, go tan or something)

Thank you for the good wishes and starting the thread. Merry, Happy, Whatever, to everyone and and especially a fruitful New Year, whenever yours might be.

The year 2080 will begin on April 13 for Nepal. Ethiopia�s New Year is on the 12th of September. In South America, the �Andean New Year,� is celebrated in mid-June. And the one I'm surer people here have already started creating and uploading? Chinese New Year 2024 is, 4722 on our, Saturday February 10, the Year of the Dragon. Orthodox Christians celebrate New Years on January 14th. Best one, it's Mayan 13.0.11.3.8

Yes most of the world, is January 1st.

Orthodox Christians celebrate New Years on January 14th.

No, it�s only Russians who celebrate Christmas on January 7th and like New Year on January 14th. Although in fact Russian orcs celebrate 2 new years, it is January 1st and 14th. Russians are a nation of genetic slaves and alcoholics. Therefore, any perversion is possible in the Russian empire.
There are several other countries that are under the influence and control of Russian Na.zis and the Russian Church (a branch of the KGB). These countries also celebrate Christmas on January 7th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

Quote from: stoker2014 on December 27, 2023, 14:13

Quote from: Uncle Pete on December 27, 2023, 13:45

Orthodox Christians celebrate New Years on January 14th.

No, it�s only Russians who celebrate Christmas on January 7th and like New Year on January 14th. Although in fact Russian orcs celebrate 2 new years, it is January 1st and 14th. Russians are a nation of genetic slaves and alcoholics. Therefore, any perversion is possible in the Russian empire.
There are several other countries that are under the influence and control of Russian Na.zis and the Russian Church (a branch of the KGB). These countries also celebrate Christmas on January 7th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

Just out of interest.

Isn't it very exhausting in the long run if you're always trying to bend your own opinion to suit yourself, which fundamentally contradicts others?

Even Jesus and religion are not safe from your interpretations 

Ralf, while his interpretation is extreme, it is factually true that not all orthodox people celebrate Christmas in January.

Greeks, Romanians, Bulgarians, the very important Patriarchate of Constantinople, the Metropolis of Basarabia/Moldova (the Church of Ukraine starting this year) and other smaller orthodox Churches have adopted December 25th as their Christmas, some more than 100 years ago.

It is true that also in this case, the russians have influenced many Western opinions and assumptions, by calling Moscow "The 3rd Rome" and claiming that they speak in the name of the entire Orthodoxy.

Quote from: RalfLiebhold on December 27, 2023, 17:12

Quote from: stoker2014 on December 27, 2023, 14:13

Quote from: Uncle Pete on December 27, 2023, 13:45

Orthodox Christians celebrate New Years on January 14th.

No, it�s only Russians who celebrate Christmas on January 7th and like New Year on January 14th. Although in fact Russian orcs celebrate 2 new years, it is January 1st and 14th. Russians are a nation of genetic slaves and alcoholics. Therefore, any perversion is possible in the Russian empire.
There are several other countries that are under the influence and control of Russian Na.zis and the Russian Church (a branch of the KGB). These countries also celebrate Christmas on January 7th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas

Just out of interest.

Isn't it very exhausting in the long run if you're always trying to bend your own opinion to suit yourself, which fundamentally contradicts others?

Even Jesus and religion are not safe from your interpretations 

Ralf, while his interpretation is extreme, it is factually true that not all orthodox people celebrate Christmas in January.

Greeks, Romanians, Bulgarians, the very important Patriarchate of Constantinople, the Metropolis of Basarabia/Moldova (the Church of Ukraine starting this year) and other smaller orthodox Churches have adopted December 25th as their Christmas, some more than 100 years ago.

It is true that also in this case, the russians have influenced many Western opinions and assumptions, by calling Moscow "The 3rd Rome" and claiming that they speak in the name of the entire Orthodoxy.

Rather than point at the Russians as the only ones, I will say, it depends one what calendar any culture decides to use. Just happens that there are differences in the Julian and Gregorian calendars, what the day is. In other words, January 14th is the same date, just a different calculation, based on Bible dates, compensating for the different calendar.

And I'll point out that adopting a date, has nothing to do with the original point, that no one knows the factual date that JC was born. We have agreed upon dates, that the church uses and people have adopted. Some changed their celebrations only 100 years ago. Some in other periods, and some have decided to stick with the old date.

These are not absolutes and many parts are opinions and variations, no one has the one true answer. The guy who owned my last office building, went to church on Saturday, he was a Christian. His church believed that the Bible said, the sabbath day was Saturday.

Happy New Year everyone.

The idiocy of the Russians is that they officially celebrate the New Year on January 1st, and celebrate Christmas on January 7th. In a fascist and Na.zi country in which the Orthodox caliphate is developing, such perversions are considered the norm.

just so we're all clear... celebrating holidays across two different calendars is what you found to take issue with?  quite a shameful perversion indeed.  you've got some strange takes, man, stay off the bottle.

Quote from: stoker2014 on December 29, 2023, 08:26

The idiocy of the Russians is that they officially celebrate the New Year on January 1st, and celebrate Christmas on January 7th. In a fascist and Na.zi country in which the Orthodox caliphate is developing, such perversions are considered the norm.

just so we're all clear... celebrating holidays across two different calendars is what you found to take issue with?  quite a shameful perversion indeed.  you've got some strange takes, man, stay off the bottle.

You are probably Russian, because you didn�t even understand what I wrote. 
Again. All normal people celebrate Christmas first, and then celebrate the New Year. But the Russian orcs, of course, cannot understand this. For Russians, the New Year begins at the beginning, and then the birth of Chri.st later. Which is idiocy, perversion and indicates a very strong mental retardation of the Russians and their slave mentality and subordination to their kings and war criminals like putin and the head of their criminal church, Gundyaev (KGB agent).
Russians are genetic slaves and alcoholics.