Paul is absolutely correct.  The point here is not so much about the dire situation of the Greek people though.  The point is that the EU, which is supposed to have social justice as a core principle, is applying the jackboot to the necks of the Greeks in order to serve the interests of very wealthy people.

...this is a beginning of the end of EU - Tsipras is a historical figure - true hero!...

Quote from: cobalt on June 27, 2015, 09:31

Quote from: panicAttack on June 27, 2015, 07:37

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

That map is really useful, thank you. I think a copy of it should be printed and sent to every household in Greece before their referendum.

So many other countries in Europe are really poor

What's happened to "Greeks are better off than Germans" here? Greeks are better off than a whole bunch of former Warsaw Pact countries (which Greece was never part of) but are just about the poorest of the previous intake of EU countries. Why not include Vietnam and Cambodia, also previously Communist states? If German wages were slashed by 50% would you be pointing out how much better off Germans are than Estonians or Slovenes and implying that they have nothing to complain about? And if 30% of Germans were thrown out of work and denied unemployment benefit, would you still maintain they were better off than their fellow Europeans?

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on June 27, 2015, 09:45

Quote from: cobalt on June 27, 2015, 09:31

Quote from: panicAttack on June 27, 2015, 07:37

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage

That map is really useful, thank you. I think a copy of it should be printed and sent to every household in Greece before their referendum.

So many other countries in Europe are really poor

What's happened to "Greeks are better off than Germans" here? Greeks are better off than a whole bunch of former Warsaw Pact countries (which Greece was never part of) but are just about the poorest of the previous intake of EU countries. Why not include Vietnam and Cambodia, also previously Communist states? If German wages were slashed by 50% would you be pointing out how much better off Germans are than Estonians or Slovenes and implying that they have nothing to complain about? And if 30% of Germans were thrown out of work and denied unemployment benefit, would you still maintain they were better off than their fellow Europeans?

If you are very young I am sorry but this is funniest (read:stupidest) thing I read here.

Are Cambodia and Vietnam taking their tax money to help Greece or does it goes for Slovenia, Slovakia, Croatia and others?

Germans spend their money, Greece is spending others money. No more.

Referendum can be simplified to something like this:

a) we still want to live like drunk millionaire spending poorer people money we haven't earned.

b) We need to settle down, live modestly and spending money we earned.

Quote from: ferdinand on June 27, 2015, 10:29

...maybe you're not young, but you're awfully naive - victim of poor western  propaganda...

Ok. so, explain me please what is going on there?

Wage levels don't necessarily reflect poverty. The poverty of trying to live in a flat in Athens, with hire-purchase debts owing on your car, furniture and white goods after losing your job is quite different from the poverty of being in a village, having a donkey, a stream with a stone for the washing, and a vegetable plot with onions, eggplants and tomatoes.

I never understand how any country can borrow so much money and then ask for more when they can't even pay the interest on the loan.  It isn't just Greece, so many countries have been living beyond their means for years now and I hope it all comes to an end soon.  It will be painful for a few years but at the moment most of the world seems to be living in an unsustainable way.  Most of us aren't as well off as we might think.  When debts can't be paid, interest rates will have to go up and everyone that can't pay their mortgage or interest on loans is in for a hard time but at least it will be real, unlike the the world we currently live in.

Quote from: sharpshot on June 27, 2015, 10:50

I never understand how any country can borrow so much money and then ask for more when they can't even pay the interest on the loan.  It isn't just Greece, so many countries have been living beyond their means for years now and I hope it all comes to an end soon.  It will be painful for a few years but at the moment most of the world seems to be living in an unsustainable way.  Most of us aren't as well off as we might think.  When debts can't be paid, interest rates will have to go up and everyone that can't pay their mortgage or interest on loans is in for a hard time but at least it will be real, unlike the the world we currently live in.

The main way of creating liquidity (i.e. money supply) is via lending. Lending effectively  increases the amount of money in circulation. It's a genius system which has funded the vast progress enjoyed over the past few hundred years (and also the wars).