I guess where I'm confused is that the tokens aren't meant as rewards but are gifts - but everyone is complaining how it's not good enough gift. If I gave a gift to someone and they turned around and complained it wasn't expensive enough - or wasn't good enough, I would be insulted. LuckyOliver doesn't have to give you jacksquat for uploading images - but they do it as a gesture of goodwill. I guess, in my opinion, to complain about getting something for free is like looking a gift horse in the mouth.

Yeah, I'd be complaining about their lousy 30% commission instead. I mean, sites such as StockXpert and Dreamstime are offering 50% with many more sales. Why would I possibly want LO to succeed. So they can take business away from DT and SX and pay me less.

It's someone like FeaturePics that I really hopes makes it.

Yeah, I'd be complaining about their lousy 30% commission instead. I mean, sites such as StockXpert and Dreamstime are offering 50% with many more sales. Why would I possibly want LO to succeed. So they can take business away from DT and SX and pay me less.

It's someone like FeaturePics that I really hopes makes it.

See, now I find that a legitimate complaint.

Guys-
I thought I would pipe in to keep things on the up and up (...and give you more details).  The discussion is good - LuckyOliver won't shy away from criticism.  I�m happy with our progress considering we�re less than 3 months into building relationships with photographers.  The photography work is truly amazing.

1.   Many of our Carnies are both photographers and designers. We�re not a pure play commerce site. Community will ultimately be a strong differentiation. Tokens are a small way to thank you for taking the time to work with LO. Photography focused Carnies may not have a need for them now.
2.   A token is the currency LuckyOliver uses for transactions.  Without promising anything, you can start to connect the dots on where this can go in a carnival/arcade/marketplace. You may not like our design, our language, or our approach- it�s simply an opportunity to work with a company that has different ideas and values. I know we can�t please everyone. However, we�re committed to success and things are happening!
3.   Our payment schedule is different than other sites. Each size varies and the potential payout is different. �Royalties� is an area you�ll see new opportunities for at LO-stay tuned!

Thanks for the insight- we�re looking forward to seeing more of everyone�s work.
Bryan

Thanks for sharing that Phil. Yeah, that leaves our tokens completely useless. A) We can't download our own photos, B) We can't download anyone else's photos. I mean I see I could spent about couple hundred credits downloading Forgis' pictures of girl in a bath (drool......) or Phil's Asians in short shorts (drool.......). Bryan: please let us know in plain English: HOW CAN WE USE THE TOKENS?

I don't think I will be uploading much more to Lucky Oliver until this issue with tokens is resolved. It is good to see you on the forums Bryan but I don't think you've quite answered everyone's queries yet. I know another photog who likes my pics and decided to download some of the ones with the pretty girls in (can't blame him) and then I got an email saying that this was against the good of the community. What did I do? You don't want someone to download my pics? If that is the case, why give us photographers the tokens. Of course, by initiating this 'incentive programme'  there was bound to be a "you download one of mine and I'll get one of yours" mentality since most photographers are NOT designers. What else to do? Especially with no sign of any other sales yet.

yeah me too! i'd like to upload more and spend in a shop. if i had my camera at the moment my d1x is getting its shutter replaced. i can almost buy a new camera for the same cost, but i'd be more motivated to get my camera out of repair so i could upload and get stuff i really need, like a better tripod, or a speedlight, or a radio shutter release. that way i can take better pictures and you can sell better pictures and things will be better then better

My thoughts...

1) I like getting the tokens - I haven't used many of them yet, but i have downloaded a couple of photos for my own use.

2) I don't need photos often but when i do it is nice not to have to spend my own money. The other day i was building this new Microstock Photography Wiki (which is a whole other subject) and found a nice image of a lens and bought it. I understand the issue that if you don't buy photos then the tokens don't mean much to you... but as has been said, very few other sites give you anything for uploading (yes Fotolia paid cash for a little bit but who else gives you anything? iStock sure doesn't). I'm happy to get anything for my uploads - and as far as i know, nobody else is offering anything at this point. I'll take it.

3) Bryan has said there are things to come with the tokens so I'll be patient.

4) The tokens are worth more than the .30 if you buy photos... yes, that is the commission on the smallest image purchase, but if you went to buy tokens with cash, they'd cost you about a buck (they start at a dollar and go down depending on how many you buy)

5) Many other sites use this "token" concept but call it something different (iStock calls it a credit for example). I don't know why some are complaining about this concept.

6) LuckyOliver is only 3 months old... i'm patienly waiting to see more.

7) I personally think it is clear - you may use the tokens just as if you'd bought them with cash to buy other people's photos. No, you can't buy your own and it isn't ethical to set up a "i'll buy yours if you'll buy mine" network. But if you need photos, you can buy them from the inventory... and I have done that. And I haven't gotten a note from management asking me not to do it.

8 ) LO has done other things that I've not seen other micros do - for example, at the end of the last contest, they added 15% commission to all of the entries in the contest so now you get a bigger commission on those. They may not do it again, but i am pleased that they did it at all.

9) I do not have blinders and I'm not a paid stooge of LO. I'm just stating my own opinions

Mitch

Agreed Mitch,
� �however as Phil pointed out your # 7 is not so obvious. He got a message stating it was no good that another photog was downloading Phil's photos. That's what I asked Bryan. If you can't use tokens to download your own photos and you can't use them to download others' photos, whose photos can you download?

Download mine�

I know another photog who likes my pics and decided to download some of the ones with the pretty girls in (can't blame him) and then I got an email saying that this was against the good of the community. What did I do?

phildate:

I am baffled by your statement!

Did you download any of the other photogs images?

I can't see how you could be held accountable for someone else's downloads.  I also can't understand what the tokens are for if not for downloading others images...

Hey guys,
I'm jumping in again to clarify the token system so that everyone doesn't get confused:

1. Tokens are part of a micropayment system. Some sites use the term credits.

2. We charge people money to purchase tokens. These tokens are priced at roughly $1. We discount based on volume. Tokens can't be exchanged for money.

3. Photographer royalties on photo downloads are given as US currency.

4. We give photographers a token for uploading an accepted image.  This is a trial. We think it's a fun way to participate in the site.  Some photographers have expressed they do not like this opportunity. I've also received positive feedback. We'll review this program to see if it makes sense in the near future.

5. While we encourage you to use your tokens (that's the point!) we have issues with groups of photographers downloading each other's work only for monetary gain. This was not our intent. Granted, you could say this was bound to happen, but I prefer to give the community concept a chance.

If you received a friendly email, it was based on patterns, so you might not have been doing anything wrong.  My apologies if you felt like this pointed a finger at you, it was meant to be heads-up to the group.

Thanks for everyone's effort. Feel free to send me a line if you want to discuss more.

Bryan

I don't need them right now but i can see a use for future (sometimes i do a little bit design).
Also as soon LO has Vectors it will become even more interesting as i don't do vectors by myself.