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Author Topic: Be careful if you're using Topaz AI (Rejections for "AI Modified)  (Read 2709 times)

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Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« on: January 05, 2025, 09:39 »
+2
I've been using Topaz AI for noise reduction / sharpening for more than a year now and super pleased. However, I've noticed that iStockphoto have rejected whole batches of commercial and editorials. See screenshot below.

I went to find out why and from November 2024 they changed their policy. See link here:

https://contributors.gettyimages.com/article/10847

In summary:

Quote
If you want to make significant changes to your content, either separately or in addition to work youve done under the Retouching Requirements, follow these rules (Modification):
Do not apply Modification to your content with generative AI tools (only use traditional, non-generative AI tools).
Do not add location keywords, titles or descriptions more specific than Region/State/County if you modify recognizable, named, or famous locations.
Do not alter a models body shape to make them look thinner or larger than they are in real life. Find out more.

NOTE: Under these Modification Requirements, without using generative AI tools, you can:
Retouch more than 10% of the images total pixels.
Add new elements you own the copyright for, including creating composites.
Retouch your models more extensively.

Had no issues at any other agency. Frustrating, might just stop uploading to iStock anyway for what they pay and now further hurdles of creating two separate batches.



odesigns

« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2025, 09:50 »
0
Maybe strip the meta or exif data before submitting.

« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2025, 11:02 »
+1
Maybe strip the meta or exif data before submitting.
Removing the corresponding metadata (Exif tag Software used) could work.
Here is a screenshot of our own Zoom software where you can see that Topaz leaves an entry that is possibly recognised by IStock and is considered AI-generated.

In fact, this is technically correct, because the AI system is very similar to a Ki image generator. In the end, not a single original pixel of your photo is retained - the image is generated block by block in a different resolution/de-noised/business.

Strictly speaking, it is no longer your image, but a completely generated image to which you no longer have the rights.

If you want to avoid such problems, you would have to avoid scaling/de-noising/sharpening programmes with generative AI and rely on other algorithms.

Examples of such scaling programmes with non-generative AIs would be Zoom #2 professional or Photozoom #8 and in the area of denoising, Neat Image or Denoise #5 professional come to mind.

odesigns

« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2025, 15:23 »
+1
Keeping "-topaz-sharpen" in the filename probably isn't wise either.

« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2025, 15:45 »
0
For normal photos I process with an old ps elements version that doesn't have modern ai tools.

I hope that version stays available for a long time.

But next generation cameras will be using ai integrated into their software.

What happens then?

odesigns

« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2025, 16:09 »
+1
But next generation cameras will be using ai integrated into their software.
What happens then?

AI will be everywhere.  The agencies are fighting a losing battle.  I'm sure iStock and others are already flooded with AI-modified videos and images without them even knowing it.

« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2025, 16:12 »
0

In fact, this is technically correct, because the AI system is very similar to a Ki image generator. In the end, not a single original pixel of your photo is retained - the image is generated block by block in a different resolution/de-noised/business.

Strictly speaking, it is no longer your image, but a completely generated image to which you no longer have the rights.


Using an AI tool for sharpening certainly does not alter a picture in a way that you lose copyright, strictly speaking or otherwise.

That no pixel of the original image may be retained is hardly an argument, because that if true of a plethora of filters or other modification.

If you apply a filter to a photo, so that it looks like an impressionist painting with Photoshop, no pixel is the same either. Even if you just make a picture darker or brighter or change the colour temperature, no pixel may be exactly the same afterwards, if you change it enough. But you still have the copyright.

« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2025, 17:29 »
+1
Using an AI tool for sharpening certainly does not alter a picture in a way that you lose copyright, strictly speaking or otherwise.

That no pixel of the original image may be retained is hardly an argument, because that if true of a plethora of filters or other modification.

If you apply a filter to a photo, so that it looks like an impressionist painting with Photoshop, no pixel is the same either. Even if you just make a picture darker or brighter or change the colour temperature, no pixel may be exactly the same afterwards, if you change it enough. But you still have the copyright.
The rights problem (which has not yet been finally clarified) also arises from the question of where the training data comes from. As soon as an image has been processed with a generative AI algorithm and not all of the image rights (without exception) of the training data are held by the creator of the software, this is a potential problem.

If a purely mathematical algorithm is used, no training data is required and the question of rights does not even arise.

I don't want to argue against you here, I just want to sensitise users to the problem. As I create image editing software myself (also with AI algorithms) and sell it, I deal with this problem almost every day, always ensuring that the rights issue is fully addressed for my users :)

« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2025, 18:26 »
+2
I've been using Topaz AI for noise reduction / sharpening for more than a year now and super pleased. However, I've noticed that iStockphoto have rejected whole batches of commercial and editorials. See screenshot below.

I went to find out why and from November 2024 they changed their policy. See link here:

https://contributors.gettyimages.com/article/10847

In summary:

Quote
If you want to make significant changes to your content, either separately or in addition to work youve done under the Retouching Requirements, follow these rules (Modification):
Do not apply Modification to your content with generative AI tools (only use traditional, non-generative AI tools).
Do not add location keywords, titles or descriptions more specific than Region/State/County if you modify recognizable, named, or famous locations.
Do not alter a models body shape to make them look thinner or larger than they are in real life. Find out more.

NOTE: Under these Modification Requirements, without using generative AI tools, you can:
Retouch more than 10% of the images total pixels.
Add new elements you own the copyright for, including creating composites.
Retouch your models more extensively.

Had no issues at any other agency. Frustrating, might just stop uploading to iStock anyway for what they pay and now further hurdles of creating two separate batches.
As far as I am aware Topaz AI Denoise and Sharpen are supposed to be acceptable on IS, but if you are using some of Photoshop's tools, just check that AI has not been activated on them ... the latest version of CC turns them on automatically again.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2025, 19:52 »
+1
For normal photos I process with an old ps elements version that doesn't have modern ai tools.

I hope that version stays available for a long time.

But next generation cameras will be using ai integrated into their software.

What happens then?

The latest version of Elements 2025, and the 2024 version is not available any longer, has a license that expires. "The license is for a full 3-year term, with no monthly or annual recurring subscription fees required. The license is non-renewing it expires 3 years after redemption, at which time the Editor will no longer be accessible, but the Organiser will continue to be accessible indefinitely."

Yes, I use Elements too. I have Photoshop, Illustrator and Lightroom CC, but I still prefer Elements.

Maybe strip the meta or exif data before submitting.
Removing the corresponding metadata (Exif tag Software used) could work.
Here is a screenshot of our own Zoom software where you can see that Topaz leaves an entry that is possibly recognised by IStock and is considered AI-generated.

Right on the Zoom software.

Some of the AI software, and I don't know to what extent now, I haven't look recently, embeds text code in the images data, that is NOT in the EXIF or other metadata. Wiping the EXIF does not remove that. It's not that easy.

« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2025, 04:14 »
+3
I've been using Topaz AI for noise reduction / sharpening for more than a year now and super pleased. However, I've noticed that iStockphoto have rejected whole batches of commercial and editorials. See screenshot below.

I went to find out why and from November 2024 they changed their policy. See link here:

https://contributors.gettyimages.com/article/10847

In summary:

Quote
If you want to make significant changes to your content, either separately or in addition to work youve done under the Retouching Requirements, follow these rules (Modification):
Do not apply Modification to your content with generative AI tools (only use traditional, non-generative AI tools).
Do not add location keywords, titles or descriptions more specific than Region/State/County if you modify recognizable, named, or famous locations.
Do not alter a models body shape to make them look thinner or larger than they are in real life. Find out more.

NOTE: Under these Modification Requirements, without using generative AI tools, you can:
Retouch more than 10% of the images total pixels.
Add new elements you own the copyright for, including creating composites.
Retouch your models more extensively.

Had no issues at any other agency. Frustrating, might just stop uploading to iStock anyway for what they pay and now further hurdles of creating two separate batches.
As far as I am aware Topaz AI Denoise and Sharpen are supposed to be acceptable on IS, but if you are using some of Photoshop's tools, just check that AI has not been activated on them ... the latest version of CC turns them on automatically again.

I'm using Topaz for noise reduction on most images, and occasionally use their sharpening tool. I haven't experienced any problems with Istock acceptance.

As far as I know, the potentially problematic Topaz tool is Gigapixel, as this uses AI to upscale.

« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2025, 05:11 »
+4
Maybe strip the meta or exif data before submitting.

Not a good idea - another condition of the same policy update https://contributors.gettyimages.com/article/10847 says:

Quote
Do not remove or change metadata which content editing tools may embed in the file. Be sure to follow these rules and our latest Content Upload Requirements to avoid file rejections, account suspension, or account closure.

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2025, 08:06 »
+1
A few clarifications:

- Only used Topaz AI sharpening and/or noise reductions. I've disabled face recovery as some results are just weird.
- Didn't use Gigapixel upscaling

Next steps:

- Will test if by deleting the title will make a difference (I don't think so)

Curious theory:

- Apparently, human reviewers are paid by image/video and so it's easier for them to reject whole batches without much inspection. Perhaps they will begin adopting AI reviews as is now becoming the norm at other agencies (Depositphoto assets are accepted/rejected within seconds).

« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2025, 08:28 »
0
What happens if you do all the AI you want, flatten the image, save it as a JPG, open up an unrelated raw file (with no AI, no adjustments), drag the jpg onto that unrelated raw file and flatten it.  Save it as whatever file name logic you use. Wouldn't that effectively strip out any evidence of AI in the exif data?

« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2025, 10:03 »
+1
What happens if you do all the AI you want, flatten the image, save it as a JPG, open up an unrelated raw file (with no AI, no adjustments), drag the jpg onto that unrelated raw file and flatten it.  Save it as whatever file name logic you use. Wouldn't that effectively strip out any evidence of AI in the exif data?

With tools like ExifTool, metadata records actions like flattening, saving, or combining files. Even if you remove metadata to hide these traces, that can make the file appear suspicious, as stripped metadata is often a red flag.

« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2025, 10:26 »
0
What happens if you do all the AI you want, flatten the image, save it as a JPG, open up an unrelated raw file (with no AI, no adjustments), drag the jpg onto that unrelated raw file and flatten it.  Save it as whatever file name logic you use. Wouldn't that effectively strip out any evidence of AI in the exif data?

With tools like ExifTool, metadata records actions like flattening, saving, or combining files. Even if you remove metadata to hide these traces, that can make the file appear suspicious, as stripped metadata is often a red flag.

It would not be stripped. It would contain the meta data from the new raw file.

« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2025, 10:42 »
+2
ChatGPT helped me a little bit:
 
Generally, metadata in image files (such as EXIF, IPTC, or XMP) does not record detailed editing actions like flattening layers, merging files, or specific save steps in Photoshop. Standard metadata fields typically include information such as:

Camera settings (exposure time, aperture, ISO, etc.)
Capture date and time
Geolocation (if enabled)
Copyright info
Software used (e.g., Adobe Photoshop 2024)
However, they usually do not store a history of how the file was altered (like which layers were flattened, in what sequence images were combined, or how many times the file was saved).

Where does Photoshop store editing actions?
History Panel (Temporary): Photoshop keeps a record of the most recent editing steps in the History panel, but this history is lost once you close the file or exit Photoshop (unless you specifically configure and save History Logs within Photoshop preferences, but thats stored in a text/log file on your computer, not embedded in the image).
PSD or PSB Files (Layers & Metadata): Photoshop file formats (.psd, .psb) maintain layers and adjustments, but they still dont embed each step you took to get there.
Can you embed editing steps at all?
In some workflows, you can save a layered PSD that preserves your edits and smart objects, but thats not the same as a detailed action-by-action log.
History Logs can be turned on in Photoshops preferences (History & Cache settings), but those logs are external text files or appended as metadata in a very limited manner, and are generally not part of the standard EXIF/ITPC fields other software would read.
So, if you flatten, save, or merge files in Photoshop, that information typically does not appear in the exported images standard metadata. Instead, only a general reference to Adobe Photoshop and a timestamp for the last edit might be included.
 
If you paste an AI-generated image (Image A) over an unedited image (Image B) in Photoshop, flatten it, and save the result, Image Bs EXIF metadata will not automatically retain or include any metadata from Image A. Heres why:

How Photoshop Handles Metadata During Editing
When Pasting or Combining Images:

Metadata from a pasted image (Image A) does not carry over to the final file. The act of pasting only transfers the visual content (pixels), not the metadata.
Flattening Layers:

When you flatten an image, Photoshop combines all layers into one. This operation discards the layer structure and any linked file references, but it doesnt alter or add new metadata unless you explicitly modify it.
Metadata in the Saved File:

The saved image will retain the metadata of the base file (Image B) unless you change it manually in Photoshop or through external tools.
For example, the EXIF field might still indicate that Photoshop was used for editing, and it will record the last modification date. However, there will be no direct trace of Image A.
Stock Agency Concerns
Stock agencies that restrict AI-generated content typically rely on:

Visual Analysis: Identifying characteristics of AI-generated imagery.
Metadata Inspections: Checking for clues in the metadata that indicate AI tools or software were used.
By flattening and saving as one layer, the metadata from Image A will not be embedded in the final image unless:

The AI software explicitly watermarked the image or inserted detectable data into the visual content.
You intentionally added metadata indicating the use of AI tools.
Best Practices and Considerations:
If you're submitting images to stock agencies, ensure the final content complies with their policies. Flattening may "hide" metadata, but it doesnt change the fact that the content was partially AI-generated.
Some stock agencies use AI detection tools that analyze pixel patterns and artifacts, which could still identify the image as AI-generated even if metadata is removed.
While metadata manipulation might work technically, its ethically better to adhere to agency guidelines and disclose the use of AI where required.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2025, 12:52 »
+1
Firefly if you open an image in a text editor. This is not in the EXIF section.



C2PA

https://c2pa.org/

"The Coalition for Content Provenance and Authenticity (C2PA) addresses the prevalence of misleading information online through the development of technical standards for certifying the source and history (or provenance) of media content. C2PA is a Joint Development Foundation project, formed through an alliance between Adobe, Arm, Intel, Microsoft and Truepic."
« Last Edit: January 06, 2025, 12:54 by Uncle Pete »

« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2025, 13:01 »
+1
However, ... if you paste an AI-generated image (Image A) over an unedited image (Image B) in Photoshop, flatten it, and save the result, Image Bs EXIF metadata will not retain or include any metadata from Image A. I think it will have NO data from image A, except the pixels copied. Basta. All the info, in the EXIF or out of it, will be the one Image B had from the beginning, except "edited in Photoshop" will be added almost for sure.

« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2025, 08:14 »
0
Istock has nowhere written that you can't improve the quality of images and videos with Topaz Ai tools, upscaling or smoother slow motion, etc. And I guess the same is true for other agencies if they want better quality images. These Ai tools also help a lot for animation graphic designers because they have less work to do with renders, etc.

Stock agencies are more interested in whether there are image elements from MidJourney etc. in the images they submit. Such Ai generators are of no interest to me for commercial use.

Even Dxo Lab boasts that it improves RAW image quality in Deep prime Ai using a model with billions of images.

Just does this company have licenses for billions of images and permission from the authors? The same is true of Topaz Ai.

How do we know if we own the copyright to our image after developing RAW Deep prime Ai images?

The problem is that we don't know if we have copyright on our images after using these Ai image enhancement tools, and whether the stock agencies protect us from these problems if it came out that these programs used non-legal AI models.

I guess it would have been worse if we had sold Ai-enhanced images to customers ourselves without the intermediaries of stock agencies.

In my opinion, as one bought these programs legally, these companies should be responsible for Ai tools and not us customers.

There is also the AI Act in the European Union and the world's first comprehensive legal regulation for artificial intelligence systems and models.

I also found an interesting other similar thread about Ai.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TopazLabs/comments/17ptl6p/topaz_photo_commercial_usage/?sort=new







Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2025, 12:56 »
+2
Istock has nowhere written that you can't improve the quality of images and videos with Topaz Ai tools, upscaling or smoother slow motion, etc. And I guess the same is true for other agencies if they want better quality images. These Ai tools also help a lot for animation graphic designers because they have less work to do with renders, etc.

Stock agencies are more interested in whether there are image elements from MidJourney etc. in the images they submit. Such Ai generators are of no interest to me for commercial use.

Sure makes sense, doesn't that?

However, ... if you paste an AI-generated image (Image A) over an unedited image (Image B) in Photoshop, flatten it, and save the result, Image Bs EXIF metadata will not retain or include any metadata from Image A. I think it will have NO data from image A, except the pixels copied. Basta. All the info, in the EXIF or out of it, will be the one Image B had from the beginning, except "edited in Photoshop" will be added almost for sure.

It's NOT in the EXIF or usual metadata. From what I've found the code is embedded in the image itself.

"When an image is created or edited using C2PA-compatible software, a set of cryptographically signed metadata is embedded directly into the image file. Content: This metadata includes information such as the creation time, the software used, and any edits made to the image."

Copy and paste into a different or new image, does not erase this tracking.


« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2025, 21:31 »
+1
"If" you only used "Topaz AI Denoise" and or "Topaz AI sharpen" then IS has said that this is acceptable. "If" you think your images were rejected incorrectly then put in a ticket. I have not heard of anyone being rejected for those tools as they dont use a "data set" they use information from within the file.
But "if" you use Photoshop CC, and use tools like "content aware" corrections, a lot of them now have AI enabled and you need to turn it off. User beware in other words! Even though they say the minimal use is acceptable it usually scores a rejection.

Topaz AI Gigapixel is not allowed at all, but resizing up is frowned upon anyway.

Metadata removal will also get you a rejection.

As Uncle Pete said the information is embedded within the file not in the metadata anyway.

Current rules:
https://contributors.gettyimages.com/article/9608
and this
https://contributors.gettyimages.com/article/10847

« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2025, 23:32 »
0
I NEVER had any issues in spite of using topaz for denoising and sharpening routinely. But I uncheck the option to use their program-specific file prefix and my vote goes to simply not using their naming convention.

« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2025, 03:29 »
0
And what about Topaz Video Ai? On istock etc.

Is it possible to denoise movies, improve the quality of movie details like a Proteus filter without upscaling or improve slow motion?

« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2025, 07:51 »
0
Maybe strip the meta or exif data before submitting.
Removing the corresponding metadata (Exif tag Software used) could work.
Here is a screenshot of our own Zoom software where you can see that Topaz leaves an entry that is possibly recognised by IStock and is considered AI-generated.

In fact, this is technically correct, because the AI system is very similar to a Ki image generator. In the end, not a single original pixel of your photo is retained - the image is generated block by block in a different resolution/de-noised/business.

Strictly speaking, it is no longer your image, but a completely generated image to which you no longer have the rights.

If you want to avoid such problems, you would have to avoid scaling/de-noising/sharpening programmes with generative AI and rely on other algorithms.

Examples of such scaling programmes with non-generative AIs would be Zoom #2 professional or Photozoom #8 and in the area of denoising, Neat Image or Denoise #5 professional come to mind.

Topaz Ai with all its Ai tools claims you own the copyright.

https://community.topazlabs.com/t/topaz-photo-commercial-usage/55873/4

Those of your recommended scaling programs also ashampoo zoom and zoom pro have Ai.






 

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