Author Topic: Will the Russia/Ukraine war affect sales? (Read 68922 times)

marthamarks · « **Reply #75 on:** February 26, 2022, 22:52 »

Quote from: Lizard on February 26, 2022, 22:37

You know you can sign up and go to fight as a volunteer ? First group from my country just left today. So Im expecting you to go and help. Keep us informed.

Good one, Lizard!

Actually, I suspect your proposal could be offered to all the super-macho, testosterone-fueled youngsters who hang out on this fun-and-feisty forum.

And they, in response, would rush gladly and enthusiastically to the Ukrainian trenches to defend Democracy and Freedom.

Lizard · « **Reply #76 on:** February 26, 2022, 23:01 »

People still think Russia can be stopped easily like some banana republic putting them in the same sentence with Serbia or Libya.

Comparing Russias forces with US Army, they have total dominance in land forces with double amount of tanks and 4x more artillery and almost double reserve personnel.

US has double aircraft but thats also misleading because Russia has almost double fighter aircrafts.

If you exclude aircraftcarriers which they don't need considering they are at home they coul even playball at the sea but as I said, they dont need to enter that fight.

So the only way US Army can pair them is in the air but on neutral territory. Being close to their air defense systems they would stand no chance.

Having 10 times bigger budget doesn't mean nothing here. Even without using nuclear weapons, of which they have 6500 and 1600 of them deployed they are equal contender.

No one is going to play war with them probably even if they would attack a smaller NATO member, because you can not win against them and if you do...it means the world is about to end.

And that's a fact dear internet warriors.

https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_USA_vs_Russia

Lizard · « **Reply #77 on:** February 26, 2022, 23:19 »

Quote from: marthamarks on February 26, 2022, 22:52

Quote from: Lizard on February 26, 2022, 22:37

You know you can sign up and go to fight as a volunteer ? First group from my country just left today. So Im expecting you to go and help. Keep us informed.

Good one, Lizard!

Actually, I suspect your proposal could be offered to all the super-macho, testosterone-fueled youngsters who hang out on this fun-and-feisty forum.

They obviously have not seen war from close.

This has to be ended whatever the price and Ukraine will sign a treaty sooner than later, they will not join NATO and they should have accepted that at the first place because its a small price to pay to avoid a drop of innocent blood being spilled.

Putin has showed his muscles, the only question is how insane he is and how far is he ready to go, but as I said I expect a treaty and a end of this sooner than later before more people die.

He can be isolated, economically sanctioned...whatever, but we should keep the armies and NATO rockets away from him and don't stick our fingers in electric plug. Cause the world is in stake here and Russia is all but a joke.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #78 on:** February 26, 2022, 23:42 »

Quote from: Lizard on February 26, 2022, 15:20

NATO was never about to include anything eastern from Germany.

This is simply not true. You got duped by Putin's propaganda!

And you are dragging with you some naive fellow contributors who should have known better (including my sweet Martha, unfortunately) $:-\$

Sad.

I dare you to produce the treaty containing this clause. Because there is none!

"While there was indeed discussion between Mr. Baker and the Soviet leader Mikhail S. Gorbachev in the months after the fall of the Berlin Wall about limiting NATO jurisdiction if East and West Germany were reunited, no such provision was included in the final treaty signed by the Americans, Europeans, and Russians."

It was only a "what if" during negotiations. No such clause made it in the final agreement!

On the other hand:

"In fact, while Mr. Putin accuses the United States of breaking an agreement it never made, Russia has violated an agreement it actually did make with regard to Ukraine. In 1994, after the Soviet Union broke apart, Russia signed an accord along with the United States and Britain called the Budapest Memorandum, in which the newly independent Ukraine gave up 1,900 nuclear warheads in exchange for a commitment from Moscow “to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine” and “to refrain from the threat or use of force” against the country."

Get your facts straight, Lizard.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/09/us/politics/russia-ukraine-james-baker.html

Mimi the Cat · « **Reply #79 on:** February 27, 2022, 00:17 »

Quote from: Aks1 on February 26, 2022, 10:51

Quote from: thijsdegraaf on February 26, 2022, 10:38
Quote from: Aks1 on February 26, 2022, 10:26
Quote from: thijsdegraaf on February 26, 2022, 10:01
Quote from: Aks1 on February 26, 2022, 09:22
Quote from: ShadySue on February 26, 2022, 08:15
Quote from: komikmiha on February 26, 2022, 06:06
Quote from: Mimi the Cat on February 26, 2022, 01:11
Quote from: komikmiha on February 25, 2022, 14:17
Quote from: marthamarks on February 25, 2022, 04:56
Quote from: JetCityImage on February 24, 2022, 11:36
Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.

Recession next?

Ugh.

Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.

So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).

I'm sure he's loving it.

Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.

Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik

I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps.

Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
I take it to the Off-topic forum, though.

I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
Him against the rest?! Do you see how you put it? And he explained it to you, and the rest, whoever the rest are. The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders. Anybody informed about military, geopolitics and anything related knows that is an extreme danger for Russia's safety. Russia warned NATO million times in the past years about this. Ukraine in NATO means balance of terror would be disturbed.
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US.
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
I'm not Russian myself, but being someone who went through a lengthy war, and being on frontlines, and being hated by enemy and knowing how this hate ends (terror and massacre) it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.

What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion. Are you also going to talk about photos?

What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.
You talk like five year old. Complete nonsense. You skipped all the classes after elementary school. I'm not willing to get in conversation with you. I can talk about video if you want. This is not photos exclusive forum.
He is a Jew, but also a cocaine addict. used to play piano with his d.ck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbmZrzN3WFE
Not a serious individual at all, installed by US.

I already had removed the comment about photos. But it surprised me a bit. Also because you regularly read about trolls.
I have been a teacher for thirty years and 72. Then you will say you are getting too old and you must have been a bad teacher.
As for what I wrote. There is no falsehood in that.
But I don't want to argue with you any further. Keep fantasizing.
Nice long thread, lets make it longer. Oh, another oldy. I really didn't know what I'm getting involved in here. What a waste of time arguing with a bunch of nursing home residents.

Spoken like true Putin kool aid drinking Botski

Now get back to posting on RT's comments section

marthamarks · « **Reply #80 on:** February 27, 2022, 00:55 »

Quote from: Lizard on February 26, 2022, 23:19

Quote from: marthamarks on February 26, 2022, 22:52
Quote from: Lizard on February 26, 2022, 22:37

You know you can sign up and go to fight as a volunteer ? First group from my country just left today. So Im expecting you to go and help. Keep us informed.

Good one, Lizard!

Actually, I suspect your proposal could be offered to all the super-macho, testosterone-fueled youngsters who hang out on this fun-and-feisty forum.

They obviously have not seen war from close.

You're right about that. And as a followup, I’ll add a few personal notes.

Much has been made here (primarily by arrogant humans of the male persuasion) of the fact that I’m an old lady. Possibly even a senile nursing-home resident. Clearly, someone like me — ie, an older female, Zero's "sweet Martha" and "dear" one — has nothing whatsoever to contribute to this momentous thread and therefore should just shut down her laptop and go tend to her knitting and cookie-baking.

Well. Just for the record…

Yes, I may be the oldest person actively participating on this forum. I’m proud of my happy and successful 75-year (so far) life.

Here are a few highlights solely related to the subject of war.

I was born in July 1946, precisely 9 months after my career-Army-officer father returned from 4 years in Europe. He had been 2nd in command of a tank destroyer unit that was widely credited with taking out many of Hitler's war machines. He also happened to be present at the liberation of Dachau Concentration Camp in April 1945.

In 1950-51, he also served in the early stages of the Korean War. My mother and I remained at home, praying that he’d come home again.

Between 1951-54, we lived in Heidelberg, Germany and traveled all over Western Europe. Never ventured behind the “Iron Curtain,” so I can’t speak to that. But I did get up-close views of bombed out cities everywhere we went. And I also experienced the gratitude and friendship of local people in France, Belgium, Holland, England and elsewhere, even in Germany. It was a great time to be an American in Europe.

So perhaps it’s not far fetched to say that, while I never personally served in a war, I’ve heard more real-life war stories and seen more of the dreadful impacts of war than many/most people alive today.

Including those commenting on this thread.

I find it ironic that, having arrived in this world at the end of WW II, I now risk going out in the middle or end of WW III.

I pray that heroic President Zelenskyy, his family, and his allies will survive Putin’s goon squads. I ache for the millions of ordinary Ukrainians who will either die or be uprooted, perhaps never to return to their homeland.

I fear for my own country, too, and for the Europe I remember so fondly (not just from childhood but from many trips as an adult), and for the whole world, because it seems we’re a hair’s breadth from some new major catastrophe that, given the intractable hatreds and growing “improvements” in weaponry and cyber technology, could end life on Earth.

These are scary times, my friends. (And yes, my very dear, sweet Zero, I include you in that category, too.)

So maybe we all can turn our energies to more productive purposes (photography anybody?) than squabbling and insulting one another on this forum!

Lizard · « **Reply #81 on:** February 27, 2022, 01:16 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on February 26, 2022, 23:42

Quote from: Lizard on February 26, 2022, 15:20
NATO was never about to include anything eastern from Germany.

This is simply not true. You got duped by Putin's propaganda!
And you are dragging with you some naive fellow contributors who should have known better (including my sweet Martha, unfortunately) $:-\$

Sad.

Get your facts straight, Lizard.

Yes, me... and the last U.S. ambassador in USSR Jack Matlock who stated in congressional testimony that Gorbachev had received assurances that if Germany united, and stayed in NATO, the borders of NATO would not move eastward.

And he is still claiming the same as you may see for yourself coming from his mouth:

https://youtu.be/fsT8OBroCEE?t=1110

So now US ambassadors are also spreading Putin propaganda.

Sad, but a guy who managed to set US elections on FB adds can probably easily get an ambassador under his wing.

SpaceStockFootage · « **Reply #82 on:** February 27, 2022, 01:40 »

https://www.rferl.org/a/nato-expansion-russia-mislead/

S2D2 · « **Reply #83 on:** February 27, 2022, 05:34 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on February 26, 2022, 21:22

Quote from: cascoly on February 26, 2022, 20:15
Quote from: Zero Talent on February 26, 2022, 17:53

But since you asked, for starters, The USA could lead the others towards a no-fly zone above Ukraine, as we did in Bosnia, Lybia, etc...
And yes, I expect much more from Europe with war is at its gates than from a country 5000 miles away. The USA should stop being the policeman of the world and Europe should grow up and assume more responsibilities when it comes to its own safety.

...

which is it? should the US stay out or impose a no-fly zone ? (which would be an act of war, certainly once they shoot down a Russian plane

Ok, I'll repeat myself: as I said above, it can be done like it was done in Bosnia, Libya, etc. If it was possible then, when it was easy in front of a weak enemy, it should be also possible today, even if the enemy is stronger.

It's a matter of principle, or else it's just hypocrisy.

At the same time, I am expecting more from Europe.

WHAT??

In all of your posts, and despite me asking you again and again, you still haven't said what you believe 'Europe' should do....

If you are so happy to attack members of this forum and 'Europe' or whoever/whatever it is your are attacking (difficult to tell sometimes) what is it exactly you believe should be happening that isn't (and by whom)??

komikmiha · « **Reply #84 on:** February 27, 2022, 06:05 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on February 26, 2022, 12:04

Quote from: komikmiha on February 26, 2022, 11:57
Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.

On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.

#whataboutism, #putinpropaganda

#icantthink #americanpropaganda

komikmiha · « **Reply #85 on:** February 27, 2022, 06:13 »

Finally Russia have send a clear message: dear Americans, your time as world policeman is over. You have been dropping bombs on Syria, Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Vietnam, Japan, etc., but it stops right now. What you gonna do? Will you crap your pants? Yes you will.

thijsdegraaf · « **Reply #86 on:** February 27, 2022, 07:00 »

Quote from: komikmiha on February 27, 2022, 06:13

Finally Russia have send a clear message: dear Americans, your time as world policeman is over. You have been dropping bombs on Syria, Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Vietnam, Japan, etc., but it stops right now. What you gonna do? Will you crap your pants? Yes you will.

Weird, is not it? Of course you don't agree with that either.

Hadn't Russia dropped a few bombs on Syria too? At hospitals. Oh no, they denied that. And we've never caught them in a lie. A Dutch plane shot out of the sky. Oh no, they denied that too.
Ukraine attacked. Oh no, that was an exercise. Oh no, but it is an army of peace. Which country kills its own countrymen?
Coincidentally, I am now listening to a Dutch journalist, who has lived in Russia for thirty years, wrote that this would not happen and is now in shock that a brother nation is being murdered. like many of his Russians friends are in shock he said.

Aks1 · « **Reply #87 on:** February 27, 2022, 07:18 »

Quote from: Mimi the Cat on February 27, 2022, 00:17

Quote from: Aks1 on February 26, 2022, 10:51
Quote from: thijsdegraaf on February 26, 2022, 10:38
Quote from: Aks1 on February 26, 2022, 10:26
Quote from: thijsdegraaf on February 26, 2022, 10:01
Quote from: Aks1 on February 26, 2022, 09:22
Quote from: ShadySue on February 26, 2022, 08:15
Quote from: komikmiha on February 26, 2022, 06:06
Quote from: Mimi the Cat on February 26, 2022, 01:11
Quote from: komikmiha on February 25, 2022, 14:17
Quote from: marthamarks on February 25, 2022, 04:56
Quote from: JetCityImage on February 24, 2022, 11:36
Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.

Recession next?

Ugh.

Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.

So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).

I'm sure he's loving it.

Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.

Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik

I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps.

Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
I take it to the Off-topic forum, though.

I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
Him against the rest?! Do you see how you put it? And he explained it to you, and the rest, whoever the rest are. The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders. Anybody informed about military, geopolitics and anything related knows that is an extreme danger for Russia's safety. Russia warned NATO million times in the past years about this. Ukraine in NATO means balance of terror would be disturbed.
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US.
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
I'm not Russian myself, but being someone who went through a lengthy war, and being on frontlines, and being hated by enemy and knowing how this hate ends (terror and massacre) it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.

What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion. Are you also going to talk about photos?

What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.
You talk like five year old. Complete nonsense. You skipped all the classes after elementary school. I'm not willing to get in conversation with you. I can talk about video if you want. This is not photos exclusive forum.
He is a Jew, but also a cocaine addict. used to play piano with his d.ck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbmZrzN3WFE
Not a serious individual at all, installed by US.

I already had removed the comment about photos. But it surprised me a bit. Also because you regularly read about trolls.
I have been a teacher for thirty years and 72. Then you will say you are getting too old and you must have been a bad teacher.
As for what I wrote. There is no falsehood in that.
But I don't want to argue with you any further. Keep fantasizing.
Nice long thread, lets make it longer. Oh, another oldy. I really didn't know what I'm getting involved in here. What a waste of time arguing with a bunch of nursing home residents.

Spoken like true Putin kool aid drinking Botski

Now get back to posting on RT's comments section

What an idiotic comment. Just because I defend Russia, you call me Putin's whatever. I least I'm not brainwashed like you on the west reading only what cnn and other fake news mafia serves you. Let's make this thread even longer.

Aks1 · « **Reply #88 on:** February 27, 2022, 07:20 »

Quote from: thijsdegraaf on February 27, 2022, 07:00

Quote from: komikmiha on February 27, 2022, 06:13
Finally Russia have send a clear message: dear Americans, your time as world policeman is over. You have been dropping bombs on Syria, Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Vietnam, Japan, etc., but it stops right now. What you gonna do? Will you crap your pants? Yes you will.

Weird, is not it? Of course you don't agree with that either.

Hadn't Russia dropped a few bombs on Syria too? At hospitals. Oh no, they denied that. And we've never caught them in a lie. A Dutch plane shot out of the sky. Oh no, they denied that too.
Ukraine attacked. Oh no, that was an exercise. Oh no, but it is an army of peace. Which country kills its own countrymen?
Coincidentally, I am now listening to a Dutch journalist, who has lived in Russia for thirty years, wrote that this would not happen and is now in shock that a brother nation is being murdered. like many of his Russians friends are in shock he said.

Somebody said something hmmmm. It looks like you want to hear just what suits you. Why don't you just go with your oldy fellow Martha and get your hip replaced, or do whatever else oldies do.

S2D2 · « **Reply #89 on:** February 27, 2022, 08:52 »

Quote from: Lizard on February 26, 2022, 22:37

Quote from: Zero Talent on February 26, 2022, 21:22
Quote from: cascoly on February 26, 2022, 20:15
Quote from: Zero Talent on February 26, 2022, 17:53

But since you asked, for starters, The USA could lead the others towards a no-fly zone above Ukraine, as we did in Bosnia, Lybia, etc...
And yes, I expect much more from Europe with war is at its gates than from a country 5000 miles away. The USA should stop being the policeman of the world and Europe should grow up and assume more responsibilities when it comes to its own safety.

...

which is it? should the US stay out or impose a no-fly zone ? (which would be an act of war, certainly once they shoot down a Russian plane

Ok, I'll repeat myself: as I said above, it can be done like it was done in Bosnia, Libya, etc. If it was possible then, when it was easy in front of a weak enemy, it should be also possible today, even if the enemy is stronger.

It's a matter of principle, or else it's just hypocrisy.

At the same time, I am expecting more from Europe.

You know you can sign up and go to fight as a volunteer ? First group from my country just left today. So Im expecting you to go and help. Keep us informed.

Seconded..

Zero Talent · « **Reply #90 on:** February 27, 2022, 08:54 »

Quote from: Lizard on February 27, 2022, 01:16

Quote from: Zero Talent on February 26, 2022, 23:42
Quote from: Lizard on February 26, 2022, 15:20
NATO was never about to include anything eastern from Germany.

This is simply not true. You got duped by Putin's propaganda!
And you are dragging with you some naive fellow contributors who should have known better (including my sweet Martha, unfortunately) $:-\$

Sad.

Get your facts straight, Lizard.

Yes, me... and the last U.S. ambassador in USSR Jack Matlock who stated in congressional testimony that Gorbachev had received assurances that if Germany united, and stayed in NATO, the borders of NATO would not move eastward.

And he is still claiming the same as you may see for yourself coming from his mouth:

https://youtu.be/fsT8OBroCEE?t=1110

So now US ambassadors are also spreading Putin propaganda.

Sad, but a guy who managed to set US elections on FB adds can probably easily get an ambassador under his wing.

So, as I already said: there is no treaty. Just words. Words that were part of a negociation.

Someone's opinion is not the treaty I dared you to produce.
Because there is none.

Maybe you are not aware, but Putin's propaganda is rather succesful even in The USA, all the way up to a former president, one of the biggest Putin fans, even today, during the invasion.
See also what Kasparov had to say about it.

So.... no treaty, Lizard... no treaty.
Just propaganda you were duped by.

Propaganda you continue to propagate in this forum.

S2D2 · « **Reply #91 on:** February 27, 2022, 09:09 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on February 26, 2022, 17:53

'Nuclear weapons are not there to be used but to deter their use, as you recently found out when you discovered that Nash equilibrium theory'.

Don't patronise me Mihai.

I knew about MAD (mutual assured destruction) 30+ years ago.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #92 on:** February 27, 2022, 09:27 »

Quote from: DO on February 27, 2022, 09:09

Quote from: Zero Talent on February 26, 2022, 17:53

'Nuclear weapons are not there to be used but to deter their use, as you recently found out when you discovered that Nash equilibrium theory'.

Don't patronise me Mihai.

I knew about MAD (mutual assured destruction) 30+ years ago.

A few days ago you brought Russia's nuclear arsenal in the discussion, being afraid that it may be used, saying that we were check-mated by Putin, and there is nothing we can do.
Yesterday, you admitted that during those 30 years, you were "naive".

Your words, not mine:

Quote from: DO on February 26, 2022, 05:38

Now I think I was rather naive in my idealism:

I am not patronizing you. I agree with you.

YadaYadaYada · « **Reply #93 on:** February 27, 2022, 09:33 »

Quote from: komikmiha on February 26, 2022, 11:57

Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.

On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.

NATO fought against murder, rape, ethnic cleansing and genocide by the military and the forces of Slobodan Milošević government.

S2D2 · « **Reply #94 on:** February 27, 2022, 09:40 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on February 27, 2022, 09:27

Quote from: DO on February 27, 2022, 09:09
Quote from: Zero Talent on February 26, 2022, 17:53

'Nuclear weapons are not there to be used but to deter their use, as you recently found out when you discovered that Nash equilibrium theory'.

Don't patronise me Mihai.

I knew about MAD (mutual assured destruction) 30+ years ago.

A few days ago you brought Russia's nuclear arsenal in the discussion, being afraid that it may be used, saying that we were check-mated by Putin, and there is nothing we can do.
Yesterday, you admited that throughout those 30 years you were "naive".

Your words, not mine:
Quote from: DO on February 26, 2022, 05:38
Now I think I was rather naive in my idealism:

I am not patronizing you. I agree with you.

Usual misdirection from you Mihai.

Deliberate misinterpretation, quoting out of context, incorrect assumption combined with a dose of bullying is your modis operandi.

So, to clear up your crap again, 30+ years ago I was a member of CND.

For the last 30+ years I was not a member of CND.

I now believe that 30+ years ago I was naive.

The above in no way relates to Putin. What I said about Putin wasn't in relation to me being naive 30+ years ago as he wasn't in politics then but the KGB.

You patronised me when you said I had recently found out about MAD (as you patronised Martha by congratulating her on the use of Google).

You need to learn respect too. I remember once on the Sstock forum (where you created similar arguments to here) that you said that people must earn respect, you didn't just give respect.

Well, for what its worth, which will be nothing to you, you've lost mine hook, line and sinker.

marthamarks · « **Reply #95 on:** February 27, 2022, 09:48 »

Quote from: DO on February 27, 2022, 09:09

Don't patronise me Mihai.

But… that's exactly what Mihai/Zero does! He's the master of patronisation, condescension, and braggadocio because of his "obvious" superiority. (In that talent, he tops Aks1, but only by a wee bit.)

Just imagine how wise he might become, what he might learn if he ever bothered to listen to you and other people once in a while.

But you are a mere woman, so why should he pay attention to you? Swaggering men like him have been disparaging and ignoring women throughout history, after all. Why change their modus operandi now?

Zero Talent · « **Reply #96 on:** February 27, 2022, 09:50 »

Quote from: DO on February 27, 2022, 09:40

Quote from: Zero Talent on February 27, 2022, 09:27
Quote from: DO on February 27, 2022, 09:09
Quote from: Zero Talent on February 26, 2022, 17:53

'Nuclear weapons are not there to be used but to deter their use, as you recently found out when you discovered that Nash equilibrium theory'.

Don't patronise me Mihai.

I knew about MAD (mutual assured destruction) 30+ years ago.

A few days ago you brought Russia's nuclear arsenal in the discussion, being afraid that it may be used, saying that we were check-mated by Putin, and there is nothing we can do.
Yesterday, you admited that throughout those 30 years you were "naive".

Your words, not mine:
Quote from: DO on February 26, 2022, 05:38
Now I think I was rather naive in my idealism:

I am not patronizing you. I agree with you.

Usual misdirection from you Mihai.

Deliberate misinterpretation, quoting out of context, incorrect assumption combined with a dose of bullying is your modis operandi.

So, to clear up your crap again, 30+ years ago I was a member of CND.

For the last 30+ years I was not a member of CND.

I now believe that 30+ years ago I was naive.

The above in no way relates to Putin. What I said about Putin wasn't in relation to me being naive 30+ years ago as he wasn't in politics then but the KGB.

You patronised me when you said I had recently found out about MAD (as you patronised Martha by congratulating her on the use of Google).

You need to learn respect too. I remember once on the Sstock forum (where you created similar arguments to here) that you said that people must earn respect, you didn't just give respect.

Well, for what its worth, which will be nothing to you, you've lost mine hook, line and sinker.

Yeah, I know, the truth hurts.

You only realized "now", that you were naive.
"Now I think I was rather naive in my idealism:"

Therefore you were naive throughout all these years, until yesterday.
This means that you were still "naive" (your word, not mine) when you made your first comment on this subject (and had a different opinion)

I'm happy to see that this debate made you realize your 30 years old idealism. You're welcome! Same as my sweet, Martha.

Edit: Martha, who lost her onomatopoeic arguments and now is speculating about sexism. Sad!

marthamarks · « **Reply #97 on:** February 27, 2022, 09:51 »

Quote from: YadaYadaYada on February 27, 2022, 09:33

Quote from: komikmiha on February 26, 2022, 11:57
Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.

On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.

NATO fought against murder, rape, ethnic cleansing and genocide by the military and the forces of Slobodan Milošević government.

Yes, and the USA bombed Japan in 1945 to end the hideous war that Japan began by bombing our naval base in Hawaii on December 7, 1941.

Context is everything, isn't it?

marthamarks · « **Reply #98 on:** February 27, 2022, 10:12 »

Quote from: Aks1 on February 27, 2022, 07:20

Why don't you just go with your oldy fellow Martha and get your hip replaced, or do whatever else oldies do.

Wow, Thijs, doesn't that sound like a great suggestion??!! What do you think?

Want to join me here in Santa Fe, where we have a fine hip-replacement surgeon?

Just imagine how amazing it would be to have our movement back! The miracle of finally being able to walk again… and hey, that might even improve our fast-fading mental capacities!

And once we manage, at long last, to rise up from our wheel chairs, maybe we can toss horse shoes together! Or play bridge!! Maybe even paddle around in the kiddie pool!!! Oh, joy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds to me like a tremendously exciting prospect. Whaddya think, Thijs???

Just_to_inform_people2 · « **Reply #99 on:** February 27, 2022, 10:15 »

It is not very surprising that, with the expansion drift of the EU and NATO, there comes a point in time that Russia says "enough is enough". You can hate them for it, and maybe rightfully so. But the guilt question here is not so easy to answer. If the situation was reversed and Russia would have been snatching one country after another in say Central America, the US would never have allowed it so close to it's border (oh wait, that actually happened

)
And then we can discuss the coup in 2014 (supported in the open by the EU), the current destablization tactics of the EU and the US in Belarus, the continuous military excercises of the NATO close to the Russian border and lot's more. And also remember that the US has a lot of liquid gas that they would like to sell to the EU instead of the gas the EU imports from Russia.
It's all very geopolitical and nobody plays it fair. Not Russia, but certainly not the US and the EU as well. And no country actually cares about the civilians. Why deliver weapons to Ukraine when you know they will lose in the end? It will only lead to more bloodshet.
But my gut says the war/invasion will be over in the next two days. Russia will stay in the Eastern part of Ukraine until NATO promises it will not allow Ukraine to their organisation and the Donbas region will have an autonomous position within the Ukraine preserving the rights and safety of the ethnic russian population living there. That will also be the final solution to this matter. Or maybe just split up the country as they did with Yugoslavia if the situation is not resolvable in the end.

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