Author Topic: Self Hosted self-hosted Why isn't there one good package? (Read 8358 times)

Uncle Pete · « **on:** June 24, 2020, 07:35 »

Jon is right about one thing. If I could self host and sell on my own, I would.

But I've been saying that for so long, that I'm getting tired of reading my own posts.

Why isn't there one, simple self hosted software platform, for individuals? One that works? If there are all these thousands of artists out there, wouldn't it make sense to have a basic, digital download software package, not WordPress. One that actually handles display, search and transactions? Is it that complicated or is the prospective market so small that no one wants to develop the package?

Maybe this is the right time?

Thousands of people who want to go self hosted.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #1 on:** June 24, 2020, 08:09 »

Sounds like you mean something like Symbiostock. I'm guessing there's not enough money in it.

If you're in it for the long term you need something that has financial backing so the platform will be sustained. Otherwise you'll be having to redo your website every few years when the software is abandoned by its creator. Check out Photoshelter and Photodeck. Or even Shopify.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #2 on:** June 24, 2020, 08:18 »

I was making a middle tier agency income from my own symbio site and growing. Shut down overnight when the EU said we couldn't sell a single digital file online directly without getting VAT registered and charging VAT. Not worth the hassle, another win for the silicon valley giants.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #3 on:** June 24, 2020, 11:31 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on June 24, 2020, 08:18

I was making a middle tier agency income from my own symbio site and growing. Shut down overnight when the EU said we couldn't sell a single digital file online directly without getting VAT registered and charging VAT. Not worth the hassle, another win for the silicon valley giants.

Good point and now the states are demanding taxes collected for every sale. How regulations can kill a small business, before they have a chance to start.

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on June 24, 2020, 08:09

Sounds like you mean something like Symbiostock. I'm guessing there's not enough money in it.

If you're in it for the long term you need something that has financial backing so the platform will be sustained. Otherwise you'll be having to redo your website every few years when the software is abandoned by its creator. Check out Photoshelter and Photodeck. Or even Shopify.

The problem I saw with Symbio was people kept making demands for features, before the basic software was solid and developed. It because a maze for Leo and even for people who understood how it worked, as it was a patchwork. Then Leo got tired of being criticized and quit. When Php changed it would be broken again. If Wordpress updated, it would often break again.

There was a point way in the start, that someone said, if we all rely on one person to develop and update, there's bound to be a problem some day. In other words, if Symbiostock had caught on as opensource, with a number of programmers involved, it might still be around.

Self hosted means, self hosted, not that I pay someone else, never ending fees, like shopify.

I guess with just those two points, taxes and keeping up with software, that pretty well answers my question, why there's nothing out there.

Not easy and the return for the developer isn't there.

So maybe that does leave me with Shopify or FAA. Sad situation.

Tenebroso · « **Reply #4 on:** June 24, 2020, 12:19 »

Okay, I open thread with separate theme.

https://www.microstockgroup.com/35766/35766/msg553783/#msg553783

Thank you very much.

If you want to comment, you do me a favor. For the third time, I ask the three questions:

- How many files do you think are necessary for a client to have an interest in simply approaching that new website?

- How much would you be willing to invest economically a year?

- How many files are you able to contribute exclusively?

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #5 on:** June 24, 2020, 13:03 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on June 24, 2020, 11:31

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on June 24, 2020, 08:09
Sounds like you mean something like Symbiostock. I'm guessing there's not enough money in it.

If you're in it for the long term you need something that has financial backing so the platform will be sustained. Otherwise you'll be having to redo your website every few years when the software is abandoned by its creator. Check out Photoshelter and Photodeck. Or even Shopify.

The problem I saw with Symbio was people kept making demands for features, before the basic software was solid and developed. It because a maze for Leo and even for people who understood how it worked, as it was a patchwork. Then Leo got tired of being criticized and quit. When Php changed it would be broken again. If Wordpress updated, it would often break again.

There was a point way in the start, that someone said, if we all rely on one person to develop and update, there's bound to be a problem some day. In other words, if Symbiostock had caught on as opensource, with a number of programmers involved, it might still be around.

Self hosted means, self hosted, not that I pay someone else, never ending fees, like shopify.

I guess with just those two points, taxes and keeping up with software, that pretty well answers my question, why there's nothing out there. Not easy and the return for the developer isn't there.

So maybe that does leave me with Shopify or FAA. Sad situation.

Sounds like you ruled out Wordpress? Seems like a good option. Inexpensive. They have stock templates and sales engines. Well supported. Good SEO.

cascoly · « **Reply #6 on:** June 24, 2020, 16:57 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on June 24, 2020, 07:35

...
Why isn't there one, simple self hosted software platform, for individuals? One that works? If there are all these thousands of artists out there, wouldn't it make sense to have a basic, digital download software package, not WordPress. One that actually handles display, search and transactions? Is it that complicated or is the prospective market so small that no one wants to develop the package?

Maybe this is the right time? Thousands of people who want to go self hosted.

it's just not that simple - wordpress takes care of basic needs w/o having to re-create user interface, menus, formatting, page design, database, blogging, etc etc before being able to develop your app (in same way apps rely on windows' processing)

so wordpress remains a great option for developing a self-hosting website but the work has to be paid somehow and the relatively small set of possible users makes that difficult to re-coup (Leo donated massive amounts of time effort to the project knowing there was little chance it would be profitable)

photo-XXx, smugmug et al. charge for their product and with fewer features than symbio/WP had

cthoman · « **Reply #7 on:** June 24, 2020, 17:38 »

Wordpress also is a big hacker target. Keeping on top of the constant updates helps with that, but it still is an easy target. In the end, it is tough to wear all the hats to make it work and the internet seems to be rapidly moving away from the "little guy" business model.

Noedelhap · « **Reply #8 on:** June 24, 2020, 17:55 »

I once had my own stock site with the CMSAccount software. Paid $70 for the template, spent days customizing, fixing and tweaking, then creating a database, prepping my portfolio, writing license documents, uploading everything, checking the payment system, tweaking some more...I got it all up and running after many, many days of work.

I figured if I made 10 sales a year, I'd be able to recoup my costs.
But my portfolio wasn't big enough to get traffic, and those who did find my website didn't purchase anything.
On top of that the VAT system was hard to configure as I couldn't automatically check where my visitors were located. In other words, automatic checkout with custom VAT options was not possible.

All in all it was a big waste of time for me.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #9 on:** June 24, 2020, 18:12 »

Quote from: Noedelhap on June 24, 2020, 17:55

I once had my own stock site with the CMSAccount software. Paid $70 for the template, spent days customizing, fixing and tweaking, then creating a database, prepping my portfolio, writing license documents, uploading everything, checking the payment system, tweaking some more...I got it all up and running after many, many days of work.

I figured if I made 10 sales a year, I'd be able to recoup my costs.
But my portfolio wasn't big enough to get traffic, and those who did find my website didn't purchase anything.
On top of that the VAT system was hard to configure as I couldn't automatically check where my visitors were located. In other words, automatic checkout with custom VAT options was not possible.

All in all it was a big waste of time for me.

It's a waste of time for a lot of people because picking the software, configuring it and uploading images are only the first couple steps. There's a lot to do after that to make sales.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #10 on:** June 24, 2020, 18:13 »

Quote from: cthoman on June 24, 2020, 17:38

Wordpress also is a big hacker target. Keeping on top of the constant updates helps with that, but it still is an easy target. In the end, it is tough to wear all the hats to make it work and the internet seems to be rapidly moving away from the "little guy" business model.

There are a ton of plugins including security.

blue · « **Reply #11 on:** June 25, 2020, 03:37 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on June 24, 2020, 07:35

Jon is right about one thing. If I could self host and sell on my own, I would.

But I've been saying that for so long, that I'm getting tired of reading my own posts.

Why isn't there one, simple self hosted software platform, for individuals? One that works? If there are all these thousands of artists out there, wouldn't it make sense to have a basic, digital download software package, not WordPress. One that actually handles display, search and transactions? Is it that complicated or is the prospective market so small that no one wants to develop the package?

Maybe this is the right time? Thousands of people who want to go self hosted.

Do you know PhotoStore ? I don't know it but it seems to fit your needs.

The pitch is promising :
"PhotoStore is a professional photo gallery and shopping cart. Sell images, artwork, digital files, videos, prints and more direct to your customers with your own website! No commission fees. Great for event photographers or selling stock photos."

You can manage multiple currencies, languages and even rights managed pricing. The pro lifetime licence is only 29$.
Seems to good to be true

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #12 on:** June 25, 2020, 07:31 »

I installed PVS, I think it's that? Photo Video Store. Seems like a good one. Uploaded images and tried to configure, I have nothing. I guess I need to more simple, step by step instructions, or I'm just getting slow in my old age.

I haven't added the part that takes payments, because I have a gallery that no one can see not even me.

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on June 24, 2020, 13:03

Sounds like you ruled out Wordpress? Seems like a good option. Inexpensive. They have stock templates and sales engines. Well supported. Good SEO.

Possibly I have been unfair, but from what I saw, it kept "breaking", errors, functions, changes to WP caused Symbio to stop functioning. When Leo looked and couldn't figure out why my site was losing the main menu and sorting things alpha, and didn't see how to fix that, I took it down.

I think a modular construction would have been the answer, where one basic, rock solid, sales platform was created. Then as people wanted fancy tricks, they could add modules or alternate routines. Because everything was woven, and each piece of code, was entwined with the rest, there was a tendency for one error to cause many other problems. On missing ; would blow up the whole site. (as an example)

I thought it was a smart idea and good concept. Especially the sharing links to get exposure for many nodes, from others. Small co-op agencies could have formed, where people didn't directly compete, or if friends, at least didn't try to copy and duplicate content. So I'd have what I liked, lets say cars? Someone else what they featured, kittens and cakes. Another person could do their stores and vegetables... then when a buyer came, they would find an assortment, which would benefit everyone in the co-op.

Anyway, the whole VAT tax problem, starts to make things nearly impossible. USA the different states have been enacting laws to claim sales tax. That's a huge problem because they mostly have different laws. That means the buyers or the site have to start collecting all kinds of tax data, along with sales data, filing with 50 different states as well as income.

Where I am, and I still have the remnants of a small sales business, there are 72 counties. Some had no sales tax, some had the baseball stadium tax, other had a football tax, and then there are different county sales taxes. I'm not going to pretend there are 72 different, but five of one, four of another, then with and without, plus of those with a tax, they had varying rates. I had to track all my sales by county and report to the state at the end of the year. Very interesting and entertaining day of number sorting. $:-\$

Is it time to move to Nevada? LOL

blue · « **Reply #13 on:** June 25, 2020, 08:15 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on June 25, 2020, 07:31

I installed PVS, I think it's that? Photo Video Store. Seems like a good one. Uploaded images and tried to configure, I have nothing. I guess I need to more simple, step by step instructions, or I'm just getting slow in my old age. I haven't added the part that takes payments, because I have a gallery that no one can see not even me.

I don't think so. Photo Video Store is a WP plugin but PhotoStore is a standalone software based on the classic trio PHP/MySQL/Apache. If you are not familiar with these technologies they offer free installation and can install PhotoStore for you.

I don't work for them

but each time I take a closer look at their product it seems more interesting. If I was to sell my pictures by myself I would consider this soft seriously.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #14 on:** June 25, 2020, 08:23 »

Quote from: blue on June 25, 2020, 08:15

Quote from: Uncle Pete on June 25, 2020, 07:31
I installed PVS, I think it's that? Photo Video Store. Seems like a good one. Uploaded images and tried to configure, I have nothing. I guess I need to more simple, step by step instructions, or I'm just getting slow in my old age. I haven't added the part that takes payments, because I have a gallery that no one can see not even me.

I don't think so. Photo Video Store is a WP plugin but PhotoStore is a standalone software based on the classic trio PHP/MySQL/Apache. If you are not familiar with these technologies they offer free installation and can install PhotoStore for you.

I don't work for them but each time I take a closer look at their product it seems more interesting. If I was to sell my pictures by myself I would consider this soft seriously.

Thanks, I'm sure I looked, installed and got lost. In other words, the problems are from my lack of knowledge. No I didn't know they would help, maybe I can ask someone, "where are my photos that I uploaded?"

I thought it was the most interesting choice for myself. I used to run websites, create them and manage. I'm just not as fast on the uptake as I used to be.

aitor · « **Reply #15 on:** June 25, 2020, 08:54 »

The demo it's down.

cathyslife · « **Reply #16 on:** June 25, 2020, 08:55 »

I had the same issues with the symbiostock site breaking. I had to build it, then it broke, and I had to rebuild it. The next time it broke, I just gave up. Self-hosting isn’t as easy as some people say it is. I did try another software, and Photostore sounds familiar. But it’s the same problem as all of them: building is one thing, getting customers to make it pay for itself is quite another. Photographers want to shoot photos. And self-hosting is like working three jobs.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #17 on:** June 25, 2020, 08:58 »

Quote from: cathyslife on June 25, 2020, 08:55

I had the same issues with the symbiostock site breaking. I had to build it, then it broke, and I had to rebuild it. The next time it broke, I just gave up. Self-hosting isn’t as easy as some people say it is. I did try another software, and Photostore sounds familiar. But it’s the same problem as all of them: building is one thing, getting customers to make it pay for itself is quite another. Photographers want to shoot photos. And self-hosting is like working three jobs.

Perfect description and conclusions.

Maybe more than three jobs, but still? Not easy to get customers.

steheap · « **Reply #18 on:** June 25, 2020, 10:15 »

For those not deeply involved in the history of Symbiostock, there were two very different versions - one that was heavily developed and influenced by the group here and then a later version that was much more hands-off - the developer approached it more as a business. That version is still going strong and I see, from their forum, that they can now host the application on Amazon's cloud which might overcome some of the cost and performance issues of hosting. I wrote a history of my adventures with self hosting and symbiostock which is here on my blog:

https://backyardsilver.com/do-self-hosted-stock-photo-sites-ever-work/

Steve

50% · « **Reply #19 on:** June 25, 2020, 11:24 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on June 24, 2020, 08:18

I was making a middle tier agency income from my own symbio site and growing. Shut down overnight when the EU said we couldn't sell a single digital file online directly without getting VAT registered and charging VAT. Not worth the hassle, another win for the silicon valley giants.

there is absolutely no problem to get VAT-registered and it's completely normal business, if you run a business you do need to be registered. If you are VAT-registered you get your VAT back from your cameras, lenses, computers etc. for a small business it can be easily a win especially if you have income that doesn't have VAT applied like all Microstockers have. Just do it and you can save a lot of money if you buy a lot of gear or travel a lot.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #20 on:** November 20, 2021, 12:06 »

Anyone using this one? Avada | Website Builder For WordPress & WooCommerce

https://themeforest.net/item/avada-responsive-multipurpose-theme/2833226?irgwc=1&clickid=13VycmVzKxyLT19wUx0Mo3ZwUkGx4fy6Ey6Tzw0&iradid=275988&irpid=1292887&iradtype=ONLINE_TRACKING_LINK&irmptype=mediapartner&mp_value1=&utm_campaign=af_impact_radius_1292887&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=impact_radius

farbled · « **Reply #21 on:** November 20, 2021, 13:07 »

I miss the original Symbio and one of Leo's later builds (I forget what it was called, GRFX or something?, but slick and streamlined and perfect for me).
I haven't seen the envato offering Pete, might be something. I miss Photostore too, but they stopped supporting it and it no longer works on my webhost (old PHP version or something). Currently using WP Photo Seller, a wordpress plugin from "tipsandtricks-hq." Dead simple to use and it handles everything quickly. Drawbacks are Wordpress limits file sizes so you need another extension for that.

DavidK · « **Reply #22 on:** November 21, 2021, 19:22 »

Terry depending on your hosting plan you probably don’t need an extension with WP. Maximum file size is typically a server side restriction in your Php configuration or .ini file. Depending on the type of plan you have most hosts allow you to increase this to pretty much anything you might need. If you’re not comfortable doing it yourself just reach out to your host and they should be able to do it for you.

farbled · « **Reply #23 on:** November 21, 2021, 20:06 »

Quote from: DavidK on November 21, 2021, 19:22

Terry depending on your hosting plan you probably don’t need an extension with WP. Maximum file size is typically a server side restriction in your Php configuration or .ini file. Depending on the type of plan you have most hosts allow you to increase this to pretty much anything you might need. If you’re not comfortable doing it yourself just reach out to your host and they should be able to do it for you.

I'm good thanks, its not a host restriction. Wordpress itself introduced an file size threshold (v5.3 if I remember correctly) of max 2560px, to save on loading times since very few websites need a max size photo for a website. When combined with a photoselling plugin, in the last few years people discovered that their max size to license was nowhere near the full size they uploaded.

My host is awesome and I have zero troubles with them. Shoutout to Dallas (another Microstocker sometimes here) and his hosting company is bestwebsiteandhosting dot com. If anyone is looking for an excellent host, he's the guy. My stock photo site is farbled dot com if anyone wants to see it in action.

kuriouskat · « **Reply #24 on:** November 22, 2021, 03:24 »

Have you looked at Smugmug?

There's a Lightroom plugin that makes uploading very easy, and they offer a range of prints and products plus digital downloads for both images and videos. There's also an option to add tax at applicable rates, although I only sell prints, (as I didn't want to go down the whole EU VAT road), so I don't know how user friendly that section is.

Also, there is the option to download your uploaded images, so it doubles as cloud storage.

There are lots of 'off the shelf' templates, and the facility to customise if you want, but it's not as fully customisable as a Wordpress site might be. Having started with the whole Symbiostock site, then moved to another Wordpress site when Symbio stopped, I've found it to be a very straightforward alternative.

They have a 14 day free trial if you want to take a look, and if anyone is interested, I can post a referral link that's worth 20% off.

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Author Topic: Self Hosted self-hosted Why isn't there one good package? (Read 8358 times)

Uncle Pete

PaulieWalnuts

Justanotherphotographer

Uncle Pete

Tenebroso

PaulieWalnuts

cascoly

cthoman

Noedelhap

PaulieWalnuts

PaulieWalnuts

blue

Uncle Pete

blue

Uncle Pete

aitor

cathyslife

Uncle Pete

steheap

50%

Uncle Pete

farbled

DavidK

farbled

kuriouskat

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