Quote from: Brandon Seidel on March 02, 2010, 10:37

Does everyone really think it�s the blogs, forums, and referral links killing the market?  I mean really, come on.

It�s one thing to vent and just choose yourself as the victim, but then there is the truth.

I thought we had all learned the truth after all these years of complaining.

Tell me how all that helps the oversupply issue.

Well, true.  I can't say it helps, but I can say I send as many or more buyers as I do "real" sellers (people who actually get approved and have images for sale) from my sites.  BUT, if my site did not send them there another site/ad/agency/forum/wiki.... would.  Do a search on Google and see what ads you get.  Marketing can be a double edged sword for us, but its nothing but gold for the agencies.  The agencies are still recruiting.

My site MicrostockPhotography.com gets thousands of hits a month from just the keyword phrase "microstock photography" alone.  I have a feeling, and this could just be me, but people searching for "microstock photography" already have an idea what they are looking for.  If they did not buy or sell using my link, they would from someone.

The problem is not who is joining, from what country they come from, or where they find their information.

The problem is the crowd-sourcing model itself and the fact that the agencies have ALL of the control.  There are more people with cameras then there will ever be buyers for.  The model itself is to blame and we all joined in to help promote it.

If someone really wants to help, start a thread on "How can we fix our ever growing and out of control Microstock model?".

I wouldn't for one minute think it's possible to now stem the tide, the endless numbers of uploads is bound to continue unabated.
What I'm saying is that people who refer masses of newbies are partly causing the oversupply and that the oversupply is nothing but a bad thing for those already working in the industry. That's just a fact. 
That someone else would do it if you weren't is also almost certainly true, though I am not sure what the relevance of it is. You could argue that about a lot of things, but I'm not sure that should have a bearing on whether you do them.
I would also say that the amount of work required to make a profit at this from a standing start is now far too great, so referring new members isn't doing them any favours either. All it's doing is hurting existing contributors, giving the agencies more power, oh and putting a few bucks in your pocket.

Well, everyone has their opinion.  My point is that we can all find someone to blame, but never point the finger back to ourselves even if we are the cause of the problem.  I guess what I have learned from this thread (well, maybe not learned but reminded) is that we are now realizing the negative affect we had on stock photography.  The people with the most to lose need to also be the people fighting the hardest to fix it.

How many people in this thread came into microstock starting off with a large portfolio of stock images?  How many of us where already full time photographers?  How many of us here were searching through Google to get started?

With every one of your photos sold, you are hurting someone sales.  Who is going to be the first to delete all of their images to help their neighbor's sales?  No one?  Really?  But the newbies need to stop.  I see.

With every post to this forum, you are advertising the referral links you despise.  I would guess this forum pulls in much more than even some of the larger microstock portfolios.  Hmmm.  The newbies have been feeling threatened lately.  Maybe there is now a market for a "newbie" microstock forum.  I send everyone here, but maybe this is not the place.

Five years ago macro shooters were the victims and the people who are "making a living" now shooting microstock was the problem.  Now microstockers "making a living" are the victims and newbies or referral links are the problem.  Five years from now free images will be the problem because there will not be anyone (or much less) "making a living" from microstock.  And why, because everyone else is the problem.

Here is a metaphor I have heard, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."

Well, everyone has their opinion.  My point is that we can all find someone to blame, but never point the finger back to ourselves even if we are the cause of the problem.  I guess what I have learned from this thread (well, maybe not learned but reminded) is that we are now realizing the negative affect we had on stock photography.  The people with the most to lose need to also be the people fighting the hardest to fix it.

For the nth time, actively trying to encourage and enlist your competition is madness.  Sure, people may find their way, but if you're going to give away free maps and a tank of gas, then you _are_ the problem.

Quote from: Brandon Seidel on March 02, 2010, 16:54

Well, everyone has their opinion.  My point is that we can all find someone to blame, but never point the finger back to ourselves even if we are the cause of the problem.  I guess what I have learned from this thread (well, maybe not learned but reminded) is that we are now realizing the negative affect we had on stock photography.  The people with the most to lose need to also be the people fighting the hardest to fix it.

How many people in this thread came into microstock starting off with a large portfolio of stock images?  How many of us where already full time photographers?  How many of us here were searching through Google to get started?

With every one of your photos sold, you are hurting someone sales.  Who is going to be the first to delete all of their images to help their neighbor's sales?  No one?  Really?  But the newbies need to stop.  I see.

With every post to this forum, you are advertising the referral links you despise.  I would guess this forum pulls in much more than even some of the larger microstock portfolios.  Hmmm.  The newbies have been feeling threatened lately.  Maybe there is now a market for a "newbie" microstock forum.  I send everyone here, but maybe this is not the place.

Five years ago macro shooters were the victims and the people who are "making a living" now shooting microstock was the problem.  Now microstockers "making a living" are the victims and newbies or referral links are the problem.  Five years from now free images will be the problem because there will not be anyone (or much less) "making a living" from microstock.  And why, because everyone else is the problem.

Here is a metaphor I have heard, "If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."

For what it's worth Brandon...I agree with you 100%
And I truly respect you for speaking out even if other don't.
Thank You

make it 3!

For the nth time, actively trying to encourage and enlist your competition is madness.  Sure, people may find their way, but if you're going to give away free maps and a tank of gas, then you _are_ the problem.

It would seem that in microstock;

"Those who can do; those who can't ... blog about it and grovel for referral links"

Ok, I give up.

Fingers pointed: Newbies increasing supply; Helping newbies; blogs about microstock; referral links

Points addressed: Newbies are not the problem, the microstock crowd-sourcing model is; blogs/forums/ads market what the agencies are paying for, why are they the bad guys; you hate referral links yet you post all day on a site and increase its traffic that makes its income from referral links

I guess people are only part of a problem if they think they are part of the problem, until then its everyone else that is the problem.

Where are all the people "making a living" from microstock when Fotolia cut percentages?  Or moved levels?  Or when Dreamstime cut percentages?  Or when all the subs were introduced?  Or any of the other recent or past issues?

My finger pointing: If you think a growing supply is a problem (I can assure you the agencies do not), then the model is to blame.  The very reason microstock was started was to do exactly what you all are complaining about.  Every single person selling in this model (including me) is to blame.  Every person referring buyers and sellers to this model is to blame (including me).

Solutions?  Maybe agencies should shut the doors to newbies?  Maybe upload limits need to be closed more?  Maybe you should have at least 5000 images to get in?  Hmmm, but then that would not be microstock as we know it then would it?

Referrals?  Agencies buy more than images and video.  They also buy traffic.  Its pretty bold of someone to say they can sell their images but site owners cannot sell their traffic.  It�s even bolder of them to actively participate on a site that does exactly that.

The fact is that referrals and newbies do increase supply.  Of course they do.  So do cheap DSLRs, Macro Photographers having to leave their model because micro has taken over, the internet, global economy, the world wide recession, your images, my images, that guy down the street's grandma's images...... come on!  Why beat the crowd with a club when you can work on fixing the gate?

I got starting on this because I am tired of seeing newbies bashed and blogs/forums blamed for the microstock industry's problems.  But it�s ok, I am done wasting my breath.  Maybe I will just provide a solution for the newbies.

yes, lots of newcomers in micros but where are they heading with their 50 images collections ?
and how much are they gonna earn from this ?

will it be enough to keep uploading in the long term ?

because actually i think it's getting really tough for newcomers to make money with micros.

can I say that you are 50% agree?.. it maybe be tough (not that much I guess), but is it possible of course a lot of work, but IT IS!

With every post to this forum, you are advertising the referral links you despise. 

Not all of us!

FTR I don't despise referral links, I despise the people who's aim it is to make money from others rather than do the hard work themselves, and I don't post links here because a. I can't see the point if someone's reading my post here there's a pretty good chance they've already looked at the sites and therefore had their cookies (or whatever the technical term is) logged by that site and b) I don't want to encourage copycats.

I have referral links on my website but that's aimed at the buyers.

Quote from: luissantos84 on March 02, 2010, 18:20

Quote from: macrosaur on March 02, 2010, 18:05

yes, lots of newcomers in micros but where are they heading with their 50 images collections ?
and how much are they gonna earn from this ?

will it be enough to keep uploading in the long term ?

because actually i think it's getting really tough for newcomers to make money with micros.

can I say that you are 50% agree?.. it maybe be tough (not that much I guess), but is it possible of course a lot of work, but IT IS!

of course anything is possible, but than even applying for Getty straight away instead of wasting time with IS and SS.

i mean, considering the effort needed and the falling sales in micros is there really a good reason to join a micro nowadays
if you're a newbie with a small portfolio ?

in my opinion newbies should be banned from IS and SS, and left to the third rate agencies.

can you define "newbie" in  3 or 4 comments?

LOL!  If the people who keep threatening to leave the discussion actually did so this thread would be a lot shorter

Quote from: luissantos84 on February 28, 2010, 21:08

If it was yesterday or before I wouldn't joined this forum! I am not enjoying staying here, I am sad about that, once I thinked that this would be a nice place to chat around about agencies etc.. and other stuff! but ok..

wish you all a great week!

Quote from: Brandon Seidel on March 02, 2010, 18:11

Ok, I give up.

I missed YOU!

LOL!  If the people who keep threatening to leave the discussion actually did so this thread would be a lot shorter

Quote from: luissantos84 on February 28, 2010, 21:08

If it was yesterday or before I wouldn't joined this forum! I am not enjoying staying here, I am sad about that, once I thinked that this would be a nice place to chat around about agencies etc.. and other stuff! but ok..

wish you all a great week!

Quote from: Brandon Seidel on March 02, 2010, 18:11

Ok, I give up.

I didn't say I was going to leave; I said I give up.

I am simply going to stop kicking the dead horse that some seem to blame on everyone else.  My "solution" is already under development.

I just want to add that Macs are better than PCs... wait what was this thread about?

Are they? I am a PC guy!