Author Topic: Does MicroStock lower design standards? (Read 31441 times)

elvinstar · « **Reply #25 on:** January 15, 2010, 21:41 »

I've never had a request for a custom shoot, but I did have someone contact me and purchase a RF license from me for $200 for an image that they found on Dreamstime.

RT · « **Reply #26 on:** January 16, 2010, 05:54 »

Quote from: xposurepro on January 15, 2010, 19:44

I never quote a price until they first tell me their budget. If they say $1500, I say this is you're lucky day because I can do it $1499. LOL You don't want to tell them $1000 and then later realize they had a photo budget of $3000 and you don't want to lose it by saying $3000 when they only had a budget of $1000.

Wow you really are lucky, as others have stated most microstock customers do not commission high end shoots or expect the price to match the low cost of microstock, but you've managed to find some that do and not only that they're prepared to tell you their budget. Is that a normal procedure in the states, in the UK you're asked to quote for a job, I guess most businesses over here are more savvy knowing that if they told you their budget you would just factor a quote to fit into it.

I'd love to see some examples of these shoots you've done if you care to share.

ShadySue · « **Reply #27 on:** January 16, 2010, 07:16 »

Quote from: lisafx on January 15, 2010, 18:24

Quote from: xposurepro on January 15, 2010, 11:36
I sometimes get contacted by art directors who originally found me through micro and then commission me to do a custom shoot on a much higher budget.
[snip]
Seems like micro customers, for the most part, just have no idea how much (custom) photography is supposed to cost....!

Sometimes I have a hollow laugh when I see the 'request new photos' and see a very complicated requested setup, often involving several models and very precise 'stage directions'. It's obvious that these images would have a 'limited market', yet the requesters sometimes act all hurt if they don't get what they want for their $10.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #28 on:** January 16, 2010, 08:10 »

Quote from: ShadySue on January 16, 2010, 07:16

Quote from: lisafx on January 15, 2010, 18:24
Quote from: xposurepro on January 15, 2010, 11:36
I sometimes get contacted by art directors who originally found me through micro and then commission me to do a custom shoot on a much higher budget.
[snip]Seems like micro customers, for the most part, just have no idea how much (custom) photography is supposed to cost....!
Sometimes I have a hollow laugh when I see the 'request new photos' and see a very complicated requested setup, often involving several models and very precise 'stage directions'. It's obvious that these images would have a 'limited market', yet the requesters sometimes act all hurt if they don't get what they want for their $10.

I think they're so used to getting cheap images they don't think, or maybe don't care anymore, about the effort.

For custom shoots that seemed to have limited/no stock value I'd give them a time and materials quote.

Contributors are at fault also. If a buyer is looking for a shot that has high effort and limited buying potential and a contributor does the shot of course they're going to expect it. You know, those contributors who say "it's only 100 miles away and I have nothing better to do so I'll do it this weekend" stuff.

Poor contributor business practices lead to poor buyer practices. Maybe not enough people are saying "no" or negotiating a reasonable cost. "I've had the camera, lenses, car, and gas for a long time so it's not really a business cost anyway right?" Then photographers wonder why buyers expect you to buy your own flaming hoop and jump through it for $5.

Also, buyers seem to automatically assume every shot we submit is profitable and:
- doesn't take much or any time or cost to shoot
- doesn't take any time to process
- gets accepted every time
- sells like crazy immediately and forever
- maybe we're rolling on money, dumb, don't care, whatever, give me my image.

The reality is shots can take weeks or months before they get momentum. And some shots or a series you think will sell may only get a handful of downloads and never even cover costs.

I've had internet people contact me for prints. They want me to make minor changes, print, and mail the images... For a couple or five dollars. I'm sure plenty of photographers say yes to that. Not including the time to produce the image and processing it costs me:

- Print at local store: $2-5 dollars
- Packaging and postage: $2-5 dollars
- Gas to go pick up the packaging and image: $2-3

That's $6-$13 in just material costs. So what's your time worth to take the shot and run around getting all the stuff? And if you say "just put your photos somewhere they can order themselves" what's the annual cost of that service? $25? $100? Just to sell a few prints?

Micro only lowers design standards if designers choose to use images that lower their design standards. Just like with photographers some designers produce amazing work and some produce work so horrible you wonder who would pay for it.

And that's why costs for quality work need to continue going back up.

{steps down from soapbox}

lisafx · « **Reply #29 on:** January 16, 2010, 12:23 »

Quote from: Noodles on January 15, 2010, 20:56

Quote from: lisafx on January 15, 2010, 18:24
Seems like micro customers, for the most part, just have no idea how much (custom) photography is supposed to cost....!

That is a concern for sure. At least you stuck to your guns and didn't give in - plenty would I'm afraid.

I don't really like doing custom work so it was easy to stick to my guns. I have the tactical advantage of not caring if I get the job

lisafx · « **Reply #30 on:** January 16, 2010, 12:30 »

Quote from: RT on January 16, 2010, 05:54

you've managed to find some that do and not only that they're prepared to tell you their budget. Is that a normal procedure in the states

Not from my experience it isn't.

RT · « **Reply #31 on:** January 17, 2010, 18:52 »

Quote from: randy_mckown on January 15, 2010, 19:44

I never quote a price until they first tell me their budget. If they say $1500, I say this is you're lucky day because I can do it $1499. LOL You don't want to tell them $1000 and then later realize they had a photo budget of $3000 and you don't want to lose it by saying $3000 when they only had a budget of $1000.

I actually had one buyer contact me and ask how much I would charge to resize a photo of mine they bought. They bought the XL but then said they needed it resized to 60MP ... for a brochure .. I was honest and told them 60MP was way overboard for their needs but they insisted so I thought hmmmm that's just goofy ... ok send $75 to my paypal. That was a well paid 30 seconds of work. LOL

I checked back on this thread to see if you'd posted any examples of those ''high end commission jobs you've been telling us all about and noticed you've changed your name from Xposurepro and altered some of your posts, reading some of your other posts it seems we really are in the prescence of an experienced pro and I'm eager to see some of your commissioned shots if you care to share, after all most of us come here to learn from the experts.

Randy McKown · « **Reply #32 on:** January 17, 2010, 19:46 »

Quote from: RT on January 17, 2010, 18:52

Quote from: randy_mckown on January 15, 2010, 19:44
I never quote a price until they first tell me their budget. If they say $1500, I say this is you're lucky day because I can do it $1499. LOL You don't want to tell them $1000 and then later realize they had a photo budget of $3000 and you don't want to lose it by saying $3000 when they only had a budget of $1000.

I actually had one buyer contact me and ask how much I would charge to resize a photo of mine they bought. They bought the XL but then said they needed it resized to 60MP ... for a brochure .. I was honest and told them 60MP was way overboard for their needs but they insisted so I thought hmmmm that's just goofy ... ok send $75 to my paypal. That was a well paid 30 seconds of work. LOL

I checked back on this thread to see if you'd posted any examples of those ''high end commission jobs you've been telling us all about and noticed you've changed your name from Xposurepro and altered some of your posts, reading some of your other posts it seems we really are in the prescence of an experienced pro and I'm eager to see some of your commissioned shots if you care to share, after all most of us come here to learn from the experts.

For the most part a lot of my photography is kept separate from microstock .. exclusive/private. However, I do have one contract example I can give from my micro portfolio.

http://www.dreamstime.com/same-model_img3718002
http://www.dreamstime.com/same-model_img3731575

Those two model were originally shot for a company who contracted me after downloading some samples from one of my microstock portfolios. Looks like I charged $2000 for that shoot. I paid the models $100 each (I normally don't pay models for microstock, only on contract jobs). Spent 1 hour total travel time .. 2 hours on location getting the shots .. 2 1/2 hours for post-edit, backup and delivery. So I averaged $327 per hour on that one .. not including micro sales. Oh I also apparently told that client they could have 6 months exclusivity .. so I did not upload the images to microstock until 6 months after I delivered the images to the client. I remember they weren't very picky and only requested that 30 shots of each model to be wearing a T-Shirt with their logo on it (which you won't find on the micro of course). It was a pretty cut n dry job.

RT · « **Reply #33 on:** January 18, 2010, 05:03 »

Quote from: randy_mckown on January 17, 2010, 19:46

For the most part a lot of my photography is kept separate from microstock .. exclusive/private. However, I do have one contract example I can give from my micro portfolio.

http://www.dreamstime.com/same-model_img3718002
http://www.dreamstime.com/same-model_img3731575

Those two model were originally shot for a company who contracted me after downloading some samples from one of my microstock portfolios. Looks like I charged $2000 for that shoot. I paid the models $100 each (I normally don't pay models for microstock, only on contract jobs). Spent 1 hour total travel time .. 2 hours on location getting the shots .. 2 1/2 hours for post-edit, backup and delivery. So I averaged $327 per hour on that one .. not including micro sales. Oh I also apparently told that client they could have 6 months exclusivity .. so I did not upload the images to microstock until 6 months after I delivered the images to the client. I remember they weren't very picky and only requested that 30 shots of each model to be wearing a T-Shirt with their logo on it (which you won't find on the micro of course). It was a pretty cut n dry job.

Thanks for sharing, I must admit to finding it quite incredible that a client has gone to all the trouble of searching a microstock site and managed to find you just by downloading some samples from your portfolio especially considering no microstock site I know off allows buyers to seach for photographers on where they say they're based in their profile, add to that your user name is different to your website and on Dreamstime (which is the site I presume they found you on as it's the only one of your linked sites that has where the photographer is based) the name you have as your full name actually comes back to another photographer on a google search and when I did find you via the name you use on Modelmayhem that site address comes back to a domain hosting site.
And then the client pays you all that money for some simple generic shots using $100 models and allows you to do more stock shots than they've comissioned you to do, let alone being able to have the whole thing done,wrapped up and delivered in 5 1/2 hours - talk about a dream commission !!!

It does lead me to ask why such a successfull photographer like yourself chooses to be a reviewer on a microstock site, obviously it's not for the money , I wonder is it your way of giving something back to the industry.

Randy McKown · « **Reply #34 on:** January 18, 2010, 10:53 »

Location doesn't matter so much .. at least in that case. That client was located in Dallas, TX which is I dunno 10-13 hours from me. Honestly, I thought they were asking for pretty generic stuff too (that's why I loved doing it .. easy money LOL) All I can say is some companies have a lot of funding behind them. When you own a company who is bringing in millions on a monthly basis a couple thousand bucks for some photos is not a big deal. That client ran a online dating site. Not only did they spend that on the shoot but a few weeks later they noticed one of my models and asked if I would ask her to fly down there and shoot a 20 second video. They paid for her airline tickets from Kansas City to Dallas, hotel for the entire weekend and paid her a few hundred bucks to sit there and giggle while pretending to chat with somebody online for 20 seconds in front of a camera. Places that have money don't have a problem spending it and the more money they have just means the more money they need to try and spend so their accounts can work those numbers into their expense goals.

I use to have my email posted in some of my profiles as a way of making contact .. but I started getting bombarded with more spam than anything so .. bad idea LOL. As for being a reviewer I actually get paid pretty good. I'm probably not allowed to say how much but it's what most people would call a full time income and I've been doing it since 2004 so it's just second nature at this point. That and it's kinda fun .. my wife says you get to travel the world everyday.

... I'm actually thinking about starting up a new educational microstock website that focuses on learning the acceptance/rejection side of micro. Everybody is always talking about not understanding the rejection process on the forums .. since I'm a 5 year reviewer it kinda makes sense for me to start a blog or something on it. (I always need to stay busy LOL)

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #35 on:** January 18, 2010, 10:57 »

Quote from: randy_mckown on January 18, 2010, 10:53

I'm actually thinking about starting up a new educational microstock website that focuses on learning the acceptance/rejection side of micro. Everybody is always talking about not understanding the rejection process on the forums .. since I'm a 5 year reviewer it kinda makes sense for me to start a blog or something on it. (I always need to stay busy LOL)

It doesn't make any sense to start a blog, as it would only help increase your competition's skill level which would decrease your sales. Take up crochet or something

willie · « **Reply #36 on:** January 18, 2010, 11:08 »

Quote from: sjlocke on January 18, 2010, 10:57

Quote from: randy_mckown on January 18, 2010, 10:53
I'm actually thinking about starting up a new educational microstock website that focuses on learning the acceptance/rejection side of micro. Everybody is always talking about not understanding the rejection process on the forums .. since I'm a 5 year reviewer it kinda makes sense for me to start a blog or something on it. (I always need to stay busy LOL)

It doesn't make any sense to start a blog, as it would only help increase your competition's skill level which would decrease your sales. Take up crochet or something

touche Mr Locke.

moreover, if it's philantrophy, there is a thread on Doctors without border where you can volunteer.

in the late 80's when i was hired to conduct seminars to pro photographers, they paid me $35/hr . (they charge more now i am sure).
why not do the same if you feel you have the expertise to train someone

i am sure many will agree that we already have too many freebies and cheapies (subs) in microstock.

Randy McKown · « **Reply #37 on:** January 18, 2010, 11:33 »

Quote from: sjlocke on January 18, 2010, 10:57

Quote from: randy_mckown on January 18, 2010, 10:53
I'm actually thinking about starting up a new educational microstock website that focuses on learning the acceptance/rejection side of micro. Everybody is always talking about not understanding the rejection process on the forums .. since I'm a 5 year reviewer it kinda makes sense for me to start a blog or something on it. (I always need to stay busy LOL)

It doesn't make any sense to start a blog, as it would only help increase your competition's skill level which would decrease your sales. Take up crochet or something

ahhhhhh but without competition there is no need to advance. Style will never change and we will be forced to stare at people in business attire frolicking with cheesy grins in front of washed out pastel backgrounds and isolations forever .. couples giggling on a neutral couch in front of a laptop and taking little baby sips of coffee in a kitchen that reminds you of the store displays in Home Depot. It will be like living in an endless issue of better housekeeping.

RT · « **Reply #38 on:** January 18, 2010, 11:53 »

Quote from: randy_mckown on January 18, 2010, 10:53

Location doesn't matter so much .. at least in that case. That client was located in Dallas, TX which is I dunno 10-13 hours from me. Honestly, I thought they were asking for pretty generic stuff too (that's why I loved doing it .. easy money LOL) All I can say is some companies have a lot of funding behind them. When you own a company who is bringing in millions on a monthly basis a couple thousand bucks for some photos is not a big deal. That client ran a online dating site. Not only did they spend that on the shoot but a few weeks later they noticed one of my models and asked if I would ask her to fly down there and shoot a 20 second video. They paid for her airline tickets from Kansas City to Dallas, hotel for the entire weekend and paid her a few hundred bucks to sit there and giggle while pretending to chat with somebody online for 20 seconds in front of a camera. Places that have money don't have a problem spending it and the more money they have just means the more money they need to try and spend so their accounts can work those numbers into their expense goals.

I use to have my email posted in some of my profiles as a way of making contact .. but I started getting bombarded with more spam than anything so .. bad idea LOL. As for being a reviewer I actually get paid pretty good. I'm probably not allowed to say how much but it's what most people would call a full time income and I've been doing it since 2004 so it's just second nature at this point. That and it's kinda fun .. my wife says you get to travel the world everyday. ... I'm actually thinking about starting up a new educational microstock website that focuses on learning the acceptance/rejection side of micro. Everybody is always talking about not understanding the rejection process on the forums .. since I'm a 5 year reviewer it kinda makes sense for me to start a blog or something on it. (I always need to stay busy LOL)

Out of interest do you read your stuff back to yourself before posting it and ever ask yourself whether it sounds credible or not.

As for your educational blog, maybe one of the first subjects could be explaining how you've got a significantly higher number of images on the site you're a reviewer at than all the others you submit to. Most people understand the rejection reasons - the reviewer

willie · « **Reply #39 on:** January 18, 2010, 12:05 »

Quote from: RT on January 18, 2010, 11:53

Quote from: randy_mckown on January 18, 2010, 10:53
Location doesn't matter so much .. at least in that case. That client was located in Dallas, TX which is I dunno 10-13 hours from me. Honestly, I thought they were asking for pretty generic stuff too (that's why I loved doing it .. easy money LOL) All I can say is some companies have a lot of funding behind them. When you own a company who is bringing in millions on a monthly basis a couple thousand bucks for some photos is not a big deal. That client ran a online dating site. Not only did they spend that on the shoot but a few weeks later they noticed one of my models and asked if I would ask her to fly down there and shoot a 20 second video. They paid for her airline tickets from Kansas City to Dallas, hotel for the entire weekend and paid her a few hundred bucks to sit there and giggle while pretending to chat with somebody online for 20 seconds in front of a camera. Places that have money don't have a problem spending it and the more money they have just means the more money they need to try and spend so their accounts can work those numbers into their expense goals.

I use to have my email posted in some of my profiles as a way of making contact .. but I started getting bombarded with more spam than anything so .. bad idea LOL. As for being a reviewer I actually get paid pretty good. I'm probably not allowed to say how much but it's what most people would call a full time income and I've been doing it since 2004 so it's just second nature at this point. That and it's kinda fun .. my wife says you get to travel the world everyday. ... I'm actually thinking about starting up a new educational microstock website that focuses on learning the acceptance/rejection side of micro. Everybody is always talking about not understanding the rejection process on the forums .. since I'm a 5 year reviewer it kinda makes sense for me to start a blog or something on it. (I always need to stay busy LOL)

Out of interest do you read your stuff back to yourself before posting it and ever ask yourself whether it sounds credible or not.

As for your educational blog, maybe one of the first subjects could be explaining how you've got a significantly higher number of images on the site you're a reviewer at than all the others you submit to. Most people understand the rejection reasons - the reviewer

no RT, you cannot use your reviewer pass to get your own portfolio approved.
that would be gross conflict of interest

Randy McKown · « **Reply #40 on:** January 18, 2010, 12:26 »

Quote from: RT on January 18, 2010, 11:53

Out of interest do you read your stuff back to yourself before posting it and ever ask yourself whether it sounds credible or not.

As for your educational blog, maybe one of the first subjects could be explaining how you've got a significantly higher number of images on the site you're a reviewer at than all the others you submit to. Most people understand the rejection reasons - the reviewer

No I just type out real fast they way things are or have happened to myself. I'm not concerned with sounding credible or not. After all it's the internet. Some people will look for credibility while others will take it in and try to spark their own innovations from it.

LOL as for the # of images I actually can explain that .. I paid them off with cold hard cash (just kidding)

. I actually have been a major slacker on uploading and have less images on the site I currently review for. I would also think it was safe to assume that every agency, big or small, does not allow reviewers to review their own images, win contests, etc. All conspiracy theories aside, I think that is or should be a pretty common practice for any type of business in the modern world.

I saw people talking about conflict of interest in another post and I didn't bother commenting on it but my immediate thought was that the reviewer simply clicked on the wrong reject reason. Think about how many times you went to click a category when submitting a file and accidentally clicked the wrong one and had to re-click it .. or more often didn't even notice and the reviewer actually fixed it for you without you ever knowing.

Jonathan Ross · « **Reply #41 on:** January 18, 2010, 12:45 »

Hi Randy,

I would offer your advice and then save your breath. There are some people here that do not want to try and grasp new ideas they just stick to what works and that is just fine for them. For what it is worth I have had several friends make very large incomes because their work was found in stock. I have my last producer who pulled down 150K this year from one major client because they found her in stock. The work she is doing for them is so boring ( her own words ) and simplistic but yet they flew her to Vegas 5 times this year, they like her as much as her work. This is not uncommon, art directors find peoples work they like and they like to work with, the human element is of importance in business.
As for asking the budget of a client that is very common on a bid for a commercial job. It lets the photographer know where they can start and if the job pays enough to be worth their while or where they can cut corners if they love the job they are being offered for creative reasons or otherwise.
The flip side is there are a great deal of art directors that ask for bids only to make the person they already wanted appear reasonable in price to their client. I have been in that situation many times. They have to get a few bids for comparison to please their clients needs. They know you will come in higher than who they want and that convinces the client on the agencies original choice so you go to the trouble of creating a bid that was never really considered for the job, absolute pain. There is a lot to the game of commercial photography that is not mentioned here because this is a stock based site. Maybe you should stick to just stock since several people seemed a bit tarnished by your remarks on commercial work.

Cheers,
Jonathan

Randy McKown · « **Reply #42 on:** January 18, 2010, 13:15 »

Quote from: Jonathan Ross on January 18, 2010, 12:45

Hi Randy,
I would offer your advice and then save your breath. There are some people here that do not want to try and grasp new ideas they just stick to what works and that is just fine for them.

Of course, it's the internet.

But I figure oh well, there might be somebody come along and use and idea to benefit themselves or modify it and make it even better and hopefully share it with everybody somewhere down the road.

Quote from: Jonathan Ross on January 18, 2010, 12:45

Maybe you should stick to just stock since several people seemed a bit tarnished by your remarks on commercial work.

Cheers,
Jonathan

I think it was here I made some comments about profit margins for studio portraiture once that got everybody worked up for a couple days LOL .. it was silly

RT · « **Reply #43 on:** January 18, 2010, 13:16 »

Quote from: Jonathan Ross on January 18, 2010, 12:45

Hi Randy,

I would offer your advice and then save your breath. There are some people here that do not want to try and grasp new ideas they just stick to what works and that is just fine for them. For what it is worth I have had several friends make very large incomes because their work was found in stock. I have my last producer who pulled down 150K this year from one major client because they found her in stock. The work she is doing for them is so boring ( her own words ) and simplistic but yet they flew her to Vegas 5 times this year, they like her as much as her work. This is not uncommon, art directors find peoples work they like and they like to work with, the human element is of importance in business.
As for asking the budget of a client that is very common on a bid for a commercial job. It lets the photographer know where they can start and if the job pays enough to be worth their while or where they can cut corners if they love the job they are being offered for creative reasons or otherwise.
The flip side is there are a great deal of art directors that ask for bids only to make the person they already wanted appear reasonable in price to their client. I have been in that situation many times. They have to get a few bids for comparison to please their clients needs. They know you will come in higher than who they want and that convinces the client on the agencies original choice so you go to the trouble of creating a bid that was never really considered for the job, absolute pain. There is a lot to the game of commercial photography that is not mentioned here because this is a stock based site. Maybe you should stick to just stock since several people seemed a bit tarnished by your remarks on commercial work.

Cheers,
Jonathan

Ahh another expert speaks, just to make things clear there I have no problem with anybody sharing their vast experience, my problem is those that do so but can't or won't actually back up their claims. Of course when some claims are blatently BS it kind of sparks a flame with me as well.

I'm sure in the examples you gave Mr Ross the lady in question could and would quite easily show examples if she were the one making such claims, but just to highlight a point it was that the claim was made regarding 'high end commission' jobs from clients finding a photographer through microstock (not that the amounts he claimed are anywhere near high end commissions), as for the commercial budget thing it certainly isn't common in UK I can tell you, which is why I asked if it's common practice in the states.

And please in the future have the guts to challenge me direct, I have no problem challenging you.

It's as the old saying goes "you can talk the talk but can you walk the walk"

I come here to learn and sometimes share things, as I'm sure others do, some people use this site as a personal ego boost which to the gullible folks out there does no good whatsoever.

RT · « **Reply #44 on:** January 18, 2010, 13:28 »

Quote from: randy_mckown on January 18, 2010, 12:26

No I just type out real fast they way things are or have happened to myself. I'm not concerned with sounding credible or not. After all it's the internet. Some people will look for credibility while others will take it in and try to spark their own innovations from it.

Nothing wrong with trying to spark innovations but when the info is misleading or inflated I don't think it does anybody any good, you're not the first and certainly won't be the last that seeks the admiration from your peers, personally I've never understood it.

By the way I do know where you're a reviewer but I'll respect your wishes to keep that info under cover.

Randy McKown · « **Reply #45 on:** January 18, 2010, 13:44 »

not sure how the conversation suddenly went astray .. I was asked to give an example with more details so I took a real world example and gave the details. I'm not sure how that can be considered misleading. It's not like I was coming out of the blue for no reason boasting to everybody how I made a million dollars photographing bars of soap in my bathroom. I was asked to give more details so I did. I didn't really feel a $2000 job was such an amazing story that it needed to be backed up by inviting everybody over to my office so they could go through me email correspondences and make photo copies of any contracts, memos and tax statements to verify the example. Did I miss something somewhere?

Jonathan Ross · « **Reply #46 on:** January 18, 2010, 13:48 »

Wow RT,

Didn't mean to get your knickers in a twist. This has you pretty fired up. My old producers name is name is Inti St. Clair and she just finished another job for AT&T, she won't mind me sharing she is a dear friend and also loves to support photographers. She doesn't bother with this site that is why she hasn't posted but if you would like to get in touch with her I can make the personal arrangements.
I am not challenging you anything, I was noticing that a few people took it pretty personally about his success and I find that happens here on regular occasion. Why should he have to prove anything to anyone here, he just offered his experience.
If your last line was directed at me about the personal Ego boost I am sorry you feel that way. I have tried to offer a great deal of information to this site on a regular basis. I am sorry you see that as blowing my own horn.
Can you explain how my supporting another photographer is for my own ego, that doesn't quite compute. Besides I said other people not RT. Please don't take this so personally it wasn't directed at you specifically it was directed at all those that challenge people here to prove themselves on a regular basis, it is just a handful of participants.
I also don't understand the statement about walking the walk. Can you explain in more detail.

Best,
Jonathan

RT · « **Reply #47 on:** January 18, 2010, 14:15 »

Dear Jonathan,

You could never get my knickers in a twist, anyhow for all you know I may be going commando!

Thank you for confirming my statement about the lady you mentioned and it perfectly highlights my point, if someone makes a claim about something is it not natural to expect them to support that claim? and it's a shame she doesn't come here because there's nothing I like more than reading the experiences of someone who actually is successful in this industry with real world examples. If she has a blog or website please post it or PM me the details.

OK I'll accept you hadn't aimed your remarks at me personally, but do you wonder why these 'few people' keep challenging situations such as these, and can you not spot the common denominator?

Now it's a touch of the touche regards you supporting another photographer for your own ego, did I mention your name

And finally to explain the walk the walk saying, there is a saying over here (I thought it was worldwide) "You can talk the talk but can you walk the walk" and I've found this explanation on the internet that might help you understand:

It means: talk is cheap, but can you follow through with action? It is similiar to: don't let your mouth write a check that your a** can't cash
Or to put it into context here, if you're going to brag about a job you've done then be prepared to follow it through with real examples of the job, not just (hypothetically speaking) a link to some stock images you've shot.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #48 on:** January 18, 2010, 14:17 »

Quote from: Randy McKown on January 18, 2010, 11:33

ahhhhhh but without competition there is no need to advance. Style will never change and we will be forced to stare at people in business attire frolicking with cheesy grins in front of washed out pastel backgrounds and isolations forever .. couples giggling on a neutral couch in front of a laptop and taking little baby sips of coffee in a kitchen that reminds you of the store displays in Home Depot. It will be like living in an endless issue of better housekeeping.

So, you aren't able to better yourself without the threat of someone banging on your door?

Jonathan Ross · « **Reply #49 on:** January 18, 2010, 14:25 »

Hi RT,

I guess it is just seems odd to me to here from people that won't reveal their own idendity to question that of others. What walk would you like, a hop on one foot, a silly walk a la John Cleese

I still don't get what you were trying to say.
Also are you explaining that the post you wrote directly to me and said a comment about egos was not directed at me, that seems a bit odd. I must have misunderstood maybe you could help explain who you were referring to? Once again I think a person can make a claim here without having to prove it to you or anyone else. I think I have shown proof for what I have added to this blog as much as the next guy.

Good luck,
J

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