Author Topic: Coronavirus ? (Read 47683 times)

trabuco · « **Reply #225 on:** March 29, 2020, 12:45 »

We have lost one of the main countries of the EU, a f tragedy for all we the euro-enthusiastic and especially for me, an English and London lover.

Hope Merkel doesn't expel more of us.

I suppose that everybody in this forum knows well how Germany is in the present times. Glad to read that the political system there is quite different now

Haven't seen Merkel's moustache anyway.

And I don't have any chinese friend, a few population in my village.

Regards.

georgep7 · « **Reply #226 on:** March 29, 2020, 13:11 »

let's either talk stock either talk serious if we are going to follow the "but Germany in the past" route.

ESM is here with some 420 billion to offer initial help plus QE. South EU countries including mine want free money.
Corona-bonds need someone (GErmany) to guarantee and pay if <-- this is an "if" striked out replaced with a:
when southerns say "nope, i cannot pay back"

Germany is not an angel in trade and politics tactics.
But it is out of mind to ask German politicians to convince German people to give away free money to other EU countries.
If they fall in order to keep EU united, Merkel will take the blame, vote for it and vanish, actually will evaporate forever from Bundestag.

More or less this is the main story as I see it. We ask Germans to do the hard work and put the most cash threatening that else we will dismantle EU.
UK is out, France will not lead, more possible will fall and follow Germany, rest of countries too weak to demand anything.
Why? Because when the conversation reach to money issue, everyone says "oh, you know..."

We had to choose a lockdown or a MASSIVE economy catastrophy.
We choosed to save people in Greece. And I am proud for this choice.
But knowing that we will pay this choice for years and years to come.
Knowing that inside this small country some selfish people will still have crazy priviledges and others will pay crazy taxation or lose business.

hah...

trabuco · « **Reply #227 on:** March 29, 2020, 13:33 »

Quote from: georgep7 on March 29, 2020, 13:11

We ask Germans to do the hard work and put the most cash threatening that else we will dismantle EU.

Maybe we should not talk anymore about "the hard job and the germans and the southern countries and the siesta". In all european countries we use to work hard and It's quite insulting.

Nobody wants free money, but we can agree that this is a new situation that can test the Union and the behaviour of the members. I can't see any advantage in to leave the countries fall and then rescue them over their economic sovereignty.

Anyway, I was joking with the years that have past from Tiananmen or the WWII

Apologies for my English.

Solidarity:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-portugal/portugal-to-treat-migrants-as-residents-during-coronavirus-crisis-idUSKBN21F0N7

Quote

Portugal to treat migrants as residents during coronavirus crisis

LISBON (Reuters) - All foreigners in Portugal with pending applications will be treated as permanent residents from Monday until at least July 1, authorities said on Saturday, to ensure migrants have access to public services during the coronavirus outbreak.

Regards.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #228 on:** March 29, 2020, 13:39 »

As we move into page ten, and I continue to discuss The Virus not politics or imaginary deep conspiracies, that someone makes up or believes, because someone else made them up. I thought some best information about the virus, at this time, could be interesting.

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

In truth comparing the flu to COVID-19 is a poor comparison. But for the numbers, cases, how they are transmitted, and because people do compare, the article is interesting. One is not the other.

The only way we could know accurate numbers, would be if ever individual was tested. That will never happen. Known cases of the flu that are hospitalized are virtually 100%, and the rest are unknown. We don't know for a fact how many people have the virus with minimal symptoms, because they aren't reported or tested.

Many parts of this Pandemic could change and will change. For example, because we are only seeing confirmed cases and deaths reported, unconfirmed cases with infection, can't possibly be factored in, because they are unknown. You can't count something that isn't documented.

Headlines (click bait) Dr. Fauci says Deaths 100,000 3 hours ago, Microsoft News / Yahoo "Dr. Fauci says Deaths 200,000" 10 hours ago ABC / US News and World Report, then CNN Dr. Fauci says Deaths 100,000 to 200,000. There, pick your news source, for the way they lean? CNN seems to be the fairest on this one for admitting what Drs., leaders, politicians, infectious diseases experts and other actually Don't Know.

We won't see where this is going until May. That's my, I'm none of the above, but an observer of news, politics and society... prediction. People want answers, when there are none, and won't accept news that says "we just don't know yet". So answers are invented, even if honest based on best evidence, they are going to change. We don't know, there's not enough testing, not enough data.

Good reading, the transmission numbers, are interesting. Oh I mean the guess at transmission numbers and how long people are infectious or how soon into catching the virus, which we don't know. The peak we won't know until after that has happened. Deaths we might count, but only for known cases, never the unknown. The fact is, percentage of deaths from known cases will be much higher than deaths from total cases. Because no one will eve know how many total cases there are or were.

At this point China data: "The death rate soars to 14.8% in those 80 and older; among those ages 70 to 79, the COVID-19 death rate in China seems to be about 8%; it’s 3.6% for those ages 60 to 69; 1.3% for 50 to 59; 0.4% for the age group 40 to 49; and just 0.2% for people ages 10 to 39. No deaths in children under 9 have been reported. "

Last of all the CDCs MMWR for last week. (Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report) March 26th 2020

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm

In China and in the US statistics, 80% of deaths occurred among persons aged 60 years or older. Not that anyone should ignore the stay at home and health advise, but at least that's less gloomy for most of the people on this forum. (I'm 72)

A month? Who wants to wait a month to find out what's really going on. Let the improvised news and made up claims spread. Then in a month, when almost no one cares to look back, lets see what the truth is?

Tenebroso · « **Reply #229 on:** March 29, 2020, 15:04 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 29, 2020, 13:39

As we move into page ten, and I continue to discuss The Virus not politics or imaginary deep conspiracies, that someone makes up or believes, because someone else made them up. I thought some best information about the virus, at this time, could be interesting.

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

In truth comparing the flu to COVID-19 is a poor comparison. But for the numbers, cases, how they are transmitted, and because people do compare, the article is interesting. One is not the other.

The only way we could know accurate numbers, would be if ever individual was tested. That will never happen. Known cases of the flu that are hospitalized are virtually 100%, and the rest are unknown. We don't know for a fact how many people have the virus with minimal symptoms, because they aren't reported or tested.

Many parts of this Pandemic could change and will change. For example, because we are only seeing confirmed cases and deaths reported, unconfirmed cases with infection, can't possibly be factored in, because they are unknown. You can't count something that isn't documented.

Headlines (click bait) Dr. Fauci says Deaths 100,000 3 hours ago, Microsoft News / Yahoo "Dr. Fauci says Deaths 200,000" 10 hours ago ABC / US News and World Report, then CNN Dr. Fauci says Deaths 100,000 to 200,000. There, pick your news source, for the way they lean? CNN seems to be the fairest on this one for admitting what Drs., leaders, politicians, infectious diseases experts and other actually Don't Know.

We won't see where this is going until May. That's my, I'm none of the above, but an observer of news, politics and society... prediction. People want answers, when there are none, and won't accept news that says "we just don't know yet". So answers are invented, even if honest based on best evidence, they are going to change. We don't know, there's not enough testing, not enough data.

Good reading, the transmission numbers, are interesting. Oh I mean the guess at transmission numbers and how long people are infectious or how soon into catching the virus, which we don't know. The peak we won't know until after that has happened. Deaths we might count, but only for known cases, never the unknown. The fact is, percentage of deaths from known cases will be much higher than deaths from total cases. Because no one will eve know how many total cases there are or were.

At this point China data: "The death rate soars to 14.8% in those 80 and older; among those ages 70 to 79, the COVID-19 death rate in China seems to be about 8%; it’s 3.6% for those ages 60 to 69; 1.3% for 50 to 59; 0.4% for the age group 40 to 49; and just 0.2% for people ages 10 to 39. No deaths in children under 9 have been reported. "

Last of all the CDCs MMWR for last week. (Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report) March 26th 2020

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm

In China and in the US statistics, 80% of deaths occurred among persons aged 60 years or older. Not that anyone should ignore the stay at home and health advise, but at least that's less gloomy for most of the people on this forum. (I'm 72)

A month? Who wants to wait a month to find out what's really going on. Let the improvised news and made up claims spread. Then in a month, when almost no one cares to look back, lets see what the truth is?

Yes, I am totally satisfied with your comments. Only Trump matters. OKAY.

Tenebroso · « **Reply #230 on:** March 29, 2020, 15:44 »

Obama had to do great, because the suffering you have, with which the country and the flag is yours, and Obama ruled illegitimate. How do I laugh, thanks.
You don't care about the truth, you only care about showing that Trump is doing great. And it is a great merit. Still, some believe that Trump's management is correct. Few, but some still remain.

Doubts about the number of cadavers, remember, it takes a long time to count in the elections, I do not think that counting cadavers are now the problem, rather, that there are many. Especially to each family of each victim, to them if it hurts and a lot, I mean the person the disappearance of the person, not the flu. to some, you are able to demonstrate that the earth is flat, but you see, many of us know that the earth is not flat. The media lie with the corpses, when you exceed the million dead, you will also doubt the number, and anything, because you only care about Hate.

Be clear, small towns will arrive. Many of us know the number of deaths from traffic accidents, influenza and possible related deaths, and we will also know the exact number of deaths from COVID-19 in each country. We, and as it will be in history, the following generations. They know that the global pandemic of COVID-19 came to the USA with the Trump administration at the forefront. The number of deaths. It will always be remembered.

georgep7 · « **Reply #231 on:** March 29, 2020, 15:46 »

Uncle Pete stands correct.

If mine or all politics comments in thread "Coronavirus" have to be removed i have no problem rather I owe an apology for going offtopic.

@trabuco it is a small planet, we are all together in this, best regards, stay safe

trabuco · « **Reply #232 on:** March 30, 2020, 01:24 »

Quote from: georgep7 on March 29, 2020, 15:46

Uncle Pete stands correct.

If mine or all politics comments in thread "Coronavirus" have to be removed i have no problem rather I owe an apology for going offtopic.

@trabuco it is a small planet, we are all together in this, best regards, stay safe

Same to you George.

Pauws99 · « **Reply #233 on:** March 30, 2020, 02:05 »

In competive capitalism the assumption you are making is the only people affected by the transaction are the buyer and seller. They aren't.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #234 on:** March 30, 2020, 08:11 »

Quote from: Tenebroso on March 29, 2020, 15:04

Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 29, 2020, 13:39
As we move into page ten, and I continue to discuss The Virus not politics or imaginary deep conspiracies, that someone makes up or believes, because someone else made them up. I thought some best information about the virus, at this time, could be interesting.

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

In truth comparing the flu to COVID-19 is a poor comparison. But for the numbers, cases, how they are transmitted, and because people do compare, the article is interesting. One is not the other.

The only way we could know accurate numbers, would be if ever individual was tested. That will never happen. Known cases of the flu that are hospitalized are virtually 100%, and the rest are unknown. We don't know for a fact how many people have the virus with minimal symptoms, because they aren't reported or tested.

Many parts of this Pandemic could change and will change. For example, because we are only seeing confirmed cases and deaths reported, unconfirmed cases with infection, can't possibly be factored in, because they are unknown. You can't count something that isn't documented.

Headlines (click bait) Dr. Fauci says Deaths 100,000 3 hours ago, Microsoft News / Yahoo "Dr. Fauci says Deaths 200,000" 10 hours ago ABC / US News and World Report, then CNN Dr. Fauci says Deaths 100,000 to 200,000. There, pick your news source, for the way they lean? CNN seems to be the fairest on this one for admitting what Drs., leaders, politicians, infectious diseases experts and other actually Don't Know.

We won't see where this is going until May. That's my, I'm none of the above, but an observer of news, politics and society... prediction. People want answers, when there are none, and won't accept news that says "we just don't know yet". So answers are invented, even if honest based on best evidence, they are going to change. We don't know, there's not enough testing, not enough data.

Good reading, the transmission numbers, are interesting. Oh I mean the guess at transmission numbers and how long people are infectious or how soon into catching the virus, which we don't know. The peak we won't know until after that has happened. Deaths we might count, but only for known cases, never the unknown. The fact is, percentage of deaths from known cases will be much higher than deaths from total cases. Because no one will eve know how many total cases there are or were.

At this point China data: "The death rate soars to 14.8% in those 80 and older; among those ages 70 to 79, the COVID-19 death rate in China seems to be about 8%; it’s 3.6% for those ages 60 to 69; 1.3% for 50 to 59; 0.4% for the age group 40 to 49; and just 0.2% for people ages 10 to 39. No deaths in children under 9 have been reported. "

Last of all the CDCs MMWR for last week. (Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report) March 26th 2020

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm

In China and in the US statistics, 80% of deaths occurred among persons aged 60 years or older. Not that anyone should ignore the stay at home and health advise, but at least that's less gloomy for most of the people on this forum. (I'm 72)

A month? Who wants to wait a month to find out what's really going on. Let the improvised news and made up claims spread. Then in a month, when almost no one cares to look back, lets see what the truth is?

Yes, I am totally satisfied with your comments. Only Trump matters. OKAY.

what I listed links and facts and you turn it into some political trash talk?

The news services spin the numbers, some low, some high and others list what Dr. Fauci actually said, "could be between 1000,000 and 200,000" The rest is real data.

Quote from: georgep7 on March 29, 2020, 15:46

Uncle Pete stands correct.

If mine or all politics comments in thread "Coronavirus" have to be removed i have no problem rather I owe an apology for going offtopic.

@trabuco it is a small planet, we are all together in this, best regards, stay safe

No no, that's not the point. One discussion is about the actual subject and some others are about world politics. No one should be censored. Just that if I write about data, the virus and people being sick and dying, I don't expect the reply to be some BS about a politician, which has nothing to do with what I wrote?

And I said May, which was 100% my personal opinion. Until we have a peak, we can't have a recovery. Maybe something will start to look a little normal by June? All I can hope is for some better weather and I can do some of the yard and garden work I've been neglecting for a few years. Well, I have a list?

Tenebroso · « **Reply #235 on:** March 30, 2020, 11:34 »

BS?

Being a flu, and not having universal health care, we were all aware of the death toll, the most pessimistic figures since January 2020 by American experts are 1,800,000 deaths if nothing is done. Since contagion has been fostered rather by misinforming the population, and creating false hopes with vaccines and miracle drugs, my opinion is that the 2 million victims in the United States will be exceeded.

Seeing the results of other countries, it will give us the real magnitude of what happened in countries like Brazil, Mexico and the USA. In a few months, the next wave of contagious will come. I don't know if the United States will try to stop it and control it from the beginning or not. We'll see. NY citizens are aware of what is coming to countries like Mexico or Brazil. It is simple, it is a matter of neurons not of hair beauty.

If the Fake News were fined and the right to information were granted to the American people, disinformative trolls would stop creating chaos and hatred. Since there are people who still maintain that the USA is doing its utmost to eradicate COVID-19. And some still believe it.

Some go to church in a group and others proud of their followers on Twitter and a boat photo. You see, the story is going to be very cruel to Trump. Does the truth bother you? It is not just from the cities, it will reach Rural America.

Both you and I can say what we want. truth?

I'm going to be honest. I like Trump.

I have spent years fighting for Article 13 of the EU.

The problem observed in the USA is the sentence that hate cannot be legislated.

This is the synthesis of the problem and the radicalization of American society.

If the court had ruled, hatred cannot be legislated, since it is a personal sentiment that cannot be legislated, however, its public manifestation will be monitored so that it does not conflict with other rights such as the right to information. Therefore, public manifestations of hatred will be brought to court and each group attacked, each individual whose right to freedom is violated will take the appropriate measure in order to eradicate hate in public.

The concept of freedom of expression is being used to silence the population. people do not want problems or to argue. Look the other way and the population is systematically attacked. Your privacy and selective manipulation of your brain. A big problem.

There will be people who hate Asians, that the dead are not that many, and endless conspiracies. All in order to ensure that the president has done his best since January, and it is Biden who is trying to blame everything on Trump. I don't like Trump's political opponents. None.

I think if you eradicate public hatred and punish the fake News it will be the end of the problem.

Can't censor possible terrorists very organized on the internet in the USA?

Well, I don't see a possible solution.
Since people think that the EU is Muslim, without borders, and a lot of other crap because of the * hatred generated by the mafias. There are people who do not know how to place Barcelona on the map, it is not a problem, the problem is that they think that we cover the statues so as not to disturb. We are ruled by feminists and a lot of crap that the only thing you get is hate.

Let him do the tariffs on the wine and olives he wants. Let him rule his style. It doesn't bother us. We are bothered by the hatred in the networks that splashes up to here. Fortunately, American multinationals understand this. Hate in the EU does not work. And they remove it from our minors.

I prefer Trump, than the one who comes later supported by white supremacist organizations, because Trump will be a saint compared to the next.

The virus is not seen, this virus is very bad. Hate is worse.

You should know that there is an American population that thinks that the followers of Sanders will burn cities if they do not win, others think that they will hang millionaires. In addition, the massive rapes in Sweden, as well as the invasion of the border by a group of women and children who were known not to happen, there are also people who affirm that the feminist leader in NY has ties to The terrorism.

If it had arrived in December it was not a problem, now the problem is, how to manipulate American society with the fake news fan to remove the virus issue from your brain and see your POTU as the great savior of the homeland.

The manipulation of a society that does not believe in the media and gives credibility to the neighbor.

DallasP · « **Reply #236 on:** March 30, 2020, 17:24 »

Quote from: georgep7 on March 09, 2020, 10:54

Quote
life will become very quiet

outdoors.

but indoors will be active as usual.
From bloggers to youtubers, from social to advertising
to whatever job can be done remotely from home,

electronic media will work as normal if not extra time.

(perhaps)

It already is. The musicians and stuff that all had their spring and possibly summer canceled are all doing live streams. They nearly crashed Facebook the other night.

trabuco · « **Reply #237 on:** March 31, 2020, 01:05 »

I'm pretty worried about the excepcional powers that politicans and policemen have now in my country and in another countries in Europe.

Today I have to go to buy food for 10 days and have to drive 10km to find a mall where can buy all the supplies. If I find a patrol in my route I could be fined because there are not clear rules to my small trip to get food. You can buy food, but they don't say to you where or how and the policemen and soldiers have the right now to fine you with an unkown fine, imposed by other authority by their own criteria with no rules either. In my small village It's imposible to get all the supplies, so the risk could be 300 to 30.000 euros (or even more) if I find an stupid patrol man (a lot of them in traffic patrols, they believe they are Sheriffs).

I have a PO box in that village too and have to get my mail.

Feel like I'm going to war, because you can't have an argument with the patrols (could be charged with disobedience, a crime). I mean, if they fine me I have to keep my mouth shut, even whether I have the right to buy food and get my mail.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #238 on:** March 31, 2020, 07:01 »

Quote from: Zero Talent on March 28, 2020, 18:54

Except that, as shown above, the opposite is true.

Effective Covid-19 tests from Europe couldn't be imported in the US, exactly because of our very strict FDA regulations.
The absence of testing in the US is certainly the reason for the extensive spread of the virus.
Many deaths could have been avoided by early testing. Check that screenshot from NY Times, I posted above.

Besides, our very strict FDA regulations are preventing drug imports, thus reducing the competition on the US market.
This is also why, many drug companies currently enjoy a virtually monopolistic situation, being protected against foreign competition and smaller domestic competitors by our strict FDA regulations.

Lower prices are not achieved through a government fiat, but through competition.

A screenshot of a headline doesn't really show anything though does it. Someone else could just easily cherry-pick an editorial about the medical company that bought out a smaller company that was mass producing cheap ventilators just so they could shut them down and protect their more expensive ventilator range.

The reason those tests weren't purchased by the US could just as easily be argued to be because the "the Trump administration had “incredibly limited” views of the pathogen’s potential impact" and Trump was "dismissive of the threat to the public’s health or the nation’s economy. By the end of the month, Mr. Trump claimed the virus was about to dissipate in the United States, saying: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear."”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/us/testing-coronavirus-pandemic.html

If the administration took the threat seriously restrictions could have been waved in light of the emergency. Instead it wasn't even recognised as an emergency.

Hate to say it but you seem to be seeing everything in anti-government lens.

Arguing that the answer to corporations having too much control over government leading to anti-competitive practices and preservation of monopolies is to dis-empower government, rather than curbing the power of corporations seems bizarre to say the least.

Do you think corporations are just going to be like "cool we'll chill out then" while that happens, or do you think they will use the opportunity presented by weakened government to take ever more control over all our lives as any checks on their power is removed? A weakened government is just easier to capture.

The question is of course rhetorical, as it has been going on for decades and you can see the result today. Big business will always try and take control of political leavers of power, and the only way to prevent is political engagement and education of the populous.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #239 on:** March 31, 2020, 07:15 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 21, 2020, 10:02

...
I don't know much about NHS, I see opinions on both sides from people who actually live where you are. I trust those more than some political writer here, with a personal agenda. Same goes for people who have never been to the US, telling us about who we are and how we live.
...

I am in the UK and have literally never heard anyone say the NHS is a bad idea.

The only complaints people have as far as I'm aware is about how it has been gutted by successive governments with a neo-liberal agenda and sold off piece by piece resulting in worse service.

On a related note, is anyone here in the UK close to NHS workers? Everyone I know that is either a doctor or nurse has had very "mixed" (to put it politely) feelings about the clapping appreciation thing that happened the other day (given the amount of people repeatedly voting in Conservative governments and what they have been doing to the NHS).

I was wondering if this is universal.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #240 on:** March 31, 2020, 10:51 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on March 31, 2020, 07:01

Quote from: Zero Talent on March 28, 2020, 18:54

Except that, as shown above, the opposite is true.

Effective Covid-19 tests from Europe couldn't be imported in the US, exactly because of our very strict FDA regulations.
The absence of testing in the US is certainly the reason for the extensive spread of the virus.
Many deaths could have been avoided by early testing. Check that screenshot from NY Times, I posted above.

Besides, our very strict FDA regulations are preventing drug imports, thus reducing the competition on the US market.
This is also why, many drug companies currently enjoy a virtually monopolistic situation, being protected against foreign competition and smaller domestic competitors by our strict FDA regulations.

Lower prices are not achieved through a government fiat, but through competition.

A screenshot of a headline doesn't really show anything though does it. Someone else could just easily cherry-pick an editorial about the medical company that bought out a smaller company that was mass producing cheap ventilators just so they could shut them down and protect their more expensive ventilator range.

The reason those tests weren't purchased by the US could just as easily be argued to be because the "the Trump administration had “incredibly limited” views of the pathogen’s potential impact" and Trump was "dismissive of the threat to the public’s health or the nation’s economy. By the end of the month, Mr. Trump claimed the virus was about to dissipate in the United States, saying: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear."”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/us/testing-coronavirus-pandemic.html

If the administration took the threat seriously restrictions could have been waved in light of the emergency. Instead it wasn't even recognised as an emergency.

Hate to say it but you seem to be seeing everything in anti-government lens.

Arguing that the answer to corporations having too much control over government leading to anti-competitive practices and preservation of monopolies is to dis-empower government, rather than curbing the power of corporations seems bizarre to say the least.

Do you think corporations are just going to be like "cool we'll chill out then" while that happens, or do you think they will use the opportunity presented by weakened government to take ever more control over all our lives as any checks on their power is removed? A weakened government is just easier to capture.

The question is of course rhetorical, as it has been going on for decades and you can see the result today. Big business will always try and take control of political leavers of power, and the only way to prevent is political engagement and education of the populous.

Yes, I agree that our president is a moron, no debate here.

What I find interesting to see how you justify the suspension of a law, instead of questioning the efficiency of that law, in the first place.

What I also find interesting is that you think that somehow corporations will take over your life, instead of realizing that this crisis, like many other crises (think 9/11) are used by governments to take even more control of our lives. Bit by bit, pieces of your freedom are chipped away.
Remember also that in a competitive economy, you have a choice. You can say no to a corporation and go with a competitor.
There is no competition for your government. Refuse to comply and coercion will be used against you. Your physical freedom will be at risk.
This is why you should fight for your freedom to choose, for competition, for your right to say no, not for the opposite of that.

Moreover, on one hand, you admit that corporations will always be in cahoots with the government, but on the other hand, you believe that the government is here to protect you against corporations (!?). Don't you see the logical contradiction here?

Yes, I understand that asking for more economic freedom, as a solution against corruption and crony-capitalism, might sound bizarre when analyzed superficially. But it is backed by strong logical arguments, not discovered by me, but by reputable economists. Try to follow their arguments and you might be surprised.

Yes, I also agree that the solution is education. People must stop believing that politicians are messiahs destined to save them from evil corporations. Politicians will always try to save themselves first while trying to make you believe that they sacrifice themselves to save you. Remember that they are in bed with their sponsor.

When voters will stop believing in fairy tales and stop asking for more of that, we will be one step closer to the real solution.

This is why the power of the government to interfere with our economical freedom must be limited, the same way the constitution is limiting the power of the government to interfere with our civil liberties. We need an economical bill of rights.

Tenebroso · « **Reply #241 on:** March 31, 2020, 11:04 »

The solution in the USA is to stay away from politics. Three options, each state are in charge of putting citizens at home, security forces checking that the one on the street is due to going to the emergency room, or food, controlling elderly people who live alone and attending to them, controlling nursing homes, the subject of prisons, enabling spaces to care for and isolate the lightly ill near hospitals. Either all states are organized through their Governors or, the state takes charge together with the governors to carry out a plan to contain the pandemic.

and not enter the game of whether the POTU does something or not, that is left to the trolls, to save lives. Then, those who only care about hatred, not the people or the country, but Trump, let the people speak in the presidential elections.

A team of scientists, doctors, and security forces in a common plan is what the USA needs. A command with a plan, stop the pandemic.
It will be done, for sure. The issue is, how many deaths does it take to get serious to stop it.

The country is already broken, in total recession. As for health, you are all millionaires, and taking an x-ray of an immigrant does not fit in the minds of the American people. It is better for insurance companies to force hospitals to discharge on Fridays, not Mondays, as they save meals. marketing and doing business with health, is only conceived in the country of the dollar.

I am not talking about the quality of the doctors, I am talking about business with people.
It is yours if you want to continue to have the most expensive health care among developed countries, where people commit suicide because they cannot afford insulin.

Your business, also who you choose as president. More pandemics are coming, in two or twenty years. In reality you will vote depending on the quality of sectarian broken brains for information manipulation that is capable of denying reality.

For example, that environmental pollution and climate change is an invention of the left to earn money. it's from a brutal brainwashing.

Are we talking about politics or a pandemic?
Do you want to talk about giving only a wood to black people because with a gun they kill?
Can you imagine yourself in the emergency room with a poor person?

Hate is incapable of saving you. 2 million dead, maybe more. And the POTU taking photos with boats like salvation, from what?

200,000 dead is a success for him, then when they exceed 2 million he will say that his management has also been a success. Do you have boats to send to Las Vegas?

USA is in shape, are you going to open on Easter? Not only does he do nothing, but his behavior is no longer funny. If a country is going to change socially and mentally it is going to be the USA. The whole planet is going to experience something historic, but the USA is going big.

Yesterday China and Russia helped you, hopefully they will continue to do so.

[email protected] · « **Reply #242 on:** March 31, 2020, 11:06 »

I live in Shanghai, China. Now our country is half open, comfortable, and can travel around. But the shutter suck is not enough. Let's go out and ride a motorcycle to the countryside.

cascoly · « **Reply #243 on:** April 03, 2020, 10:35 »

Quote from: Tenebroso on March 31, 2020, 11:04

The solution in the USA is to stay away from politics. Three options, each state are in charge of putting citizens at home, security forces checking that the one on the street is due to going to the emergency room, or food, controlling elderly people who live alone and attending to them, controlling nursing homes, the subject of prisons, enabling spaces to care for and isolate the lightly ill near hospitals. Either all states are organized through their Governors or, the state takes charge together with the governors to carry out a plan to contain the pandemic.

and not enter the game of whether the POTU does something or not, that is left to the trolls, to save lives. Then, those who only care about hatred, not the people or the country, but Trump, let the people speak in the presidential elections.
...

of course it's political --

by the election we'll have lost tens of thousands who didnt have to die - trump is holding up aid to states that didnt vote for him (saying they're not appreciative of the fantastic job he's doing)

and states are competing with each other, driving prices up due to price gouging and war profiteering. the federal govt needs to control and regulate both the production and distribution

trump's daily briefings are nothing but propaganda (since his rallies are shut down), and the actual health folks speaking are mostly sycophants (fauci being the exception)

for 2 months, trump did NOTHING; now he says NY wont need 20,000+ ventilators since they've never used 2000 before AND that states should have stockpiled years ago (he always shifts the blame to others for his own misdeeds)

right wing states are trying to claim that abortions are elective and should be put off (for several months?)

and most obscene - after claiming a miracle would solve all cases in 15 days, he now says that 100,000 - 200,000 deaths as a victory for his policies!

Tenebroso · « **Reply #244 on:** April 03, 2020, 12:41 »

It is impossible to fight against a population that already in 2016 turned away from information and their brains feed on radical misinformation on the extreme right, hatred. That the USA is in danger because half the population lives with the zombie brain is a reality. Sorry, Fake News, Hate speech is the problem. The misinterpretation of the amendment, Freedom of Expression for organizing mafia groups that hide the reality from their population.

I have spent years struggling with this issue, it is impossible. The victims of sects, have their brains programmed, for anyone who tells them the truth, it is simply a test of the devil.

The problem has been reported for decades. There is no solution, as long as privacy is allowed to invade with deceptive advertising on demand, directly to the brains of good people.

Before they can analyze the data for themselves, they are already receiving new data. They do not think for themselves, it is simply the greatest manipulation of the brain in history. They are not able to see reality.

There is no solution. They don't believe in the media, they just believe that the left has the smallest brain and that they want to end the Constitution and the fundamental rights of the good American. If you don't hate, you're not a good American. It is an authentic drama. To end this tragedy, you have to show solidarity and fight together, and that makes some allergic.

But for the interest of a few, although the entire town is a millionaire, simply indebted to multinationals, and living from paycheck to paycheck, the important thing is Venezuela, Iran or China. This will maintain the authentic union of the people in the barbecue and will fight against the invasion of the borders. It is so ridiculous, that anyone from 7 years out of the USA laughs.

It is not laughable, it is very sad, since it is not so ridiculous to see reality, but it must be treated as a disease, which attacks half of the population, and we are talking about many millions of people, who will be able to hate China instead of trying to solve a great problem, a pandemic in the USA with health for millionaires and a population faced in the most absolute radicalization, as a way of life.

Zero Talent · « **Reply #245 on:** April 03, 2020, 17:23 »

Quote from: Tenebroso on April 03, 2020, 12:41

There is no solution,

Here is another potential solution:

https://youtu.be/TfQij4aQq1k

Tenebroso · « **Reply #246 on:** April 03, 2020, 19:36 »

Interesting, thanks.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #247 on:** April 04, 2020, 10:28 »

The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

Tenebroso · « **Reply #248 on:** April 04, 2020, 11:11 »

To put computers to work in the search for medicines. COVID-19
Calculations between all computers participating in the world.
https://foldingathome.org/

if you want to join the Spanish group of La reunion Secreta
Team Number: 257538
https://youtu.be/zTZg4mxB2wk

Shelma1 · « **Reply #249 on:** April 04, 2020, 14:26 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on April 04, 2020, 10:28

The CDC has reversed its recommendations about using face masks as the coronavirus pandemic develops.

You left out the part where Trump told everyone it was voluntary several times, and also said several times he won’t be wearing one, while standing right next to all his cronies.

MicrostockGroup Sponsors

Author Topic: Coronavirus ? (Read 47683 times)

trabuco

georgep7

trabuco

Uncle Pete

Tenebroso

Tenebroso

georgep7

trabuco

Pauws99

Uncle Pete

Tenebroso

DallasP

trabuco

Justanotherphotographer

Justanotherphotographer

Zero Talent

Tenebroso

[email protected]

cascoly

Tenebroso

Zero Talent

Tenebroso

Uncle Pete

Tenebroso

Shelma1

Related Topics

Sponsors

Microstock Poll Results

Sponsors