There are people dying, there's a pandemic, potemtially millions of people will die and the big story for some is Oh My, Oh My,  "Trump said the word China". Honest there are more important issues in the world, especially more than following around some buffoon to poke at him for every word and flaw someone can find.

Actually what's more upsetting than words, is there are people all over the world, who aren't taking this seriously. I mean, they are not staying in, or some are partying in groups. Sick people are going to work or don't care if they infect others or spread the decease.

That's more important than what Putin did, Boris did, or Trump said. Keep in mind that China now claims no new cases reported? Does anyone actually believe that? This is not going to pass that easily, there's no miracle drug, and it's going to get much worse, everywhere for everyone, before anything gets better.

Enough hate politics, how about the actual situation?

Facts: Incubation period is thought to be as long as 14 days. More than 97 percent of people who contract SARS-CoV-2 show symptoms within 11.5 days of exposure. The average incubation period seems to be around 5 days.

That means the lock downs that starts on the 15th in many places, people won't know they have been infected until the 26th of March. We aren't there yet. Which using that average, anyone infected could have been spreading the disease for almost two weeks, before the 15th and people who caught it... don't know yet!

As of today:
Active cases
177,384
Recovered cases
93,189
Fatal cases
11,822

USA cases, 19,800 but as many as 70,000 Americans could be confirmed as infected with coronavirus by the end of next week. I know there are some good math people here. If 20,000 is going to be 70,000 then 282,395 world cases, will likely become 1 million cases.

So you can write nasty messages about world leaders, and complain about what they failed to do, or what they are doing that someone here thinks they shouldn't do, but there's much more going on, that will threaten our lives and friends, which is seriously more important than politics or correcting a word in a speech.

Also a note, if what people are saying is true, and I believe them, that only people in care who are seriously ill are tested, the confirmed cases are much lower than the number of people who already have been infected. The possibility that reported cases is much lower than actual cases, is very real.

Please stay at home.

I don't believe that the leaders of the world are coming here to read our opinions. LOL  That's what I mean.

I don't know much about NHS, I see opinions on both sides from people who actually live where you are. I trust those more than some political writer here, with a personal agenda. Same goes for people who have never been to the US, telling us about who we are and how we live.

I mean I've been to Texas and hardly anyone wears cowboy hats or has a six gun on their belt.  I can understand the stereotype of an American tourist who expects the world to cater to them, and in English. My limited experience out of the country people said "you don't act like an American, we kind of like you." (which I took as a huge compliment.)

I don't see "demands of the people" doing much in any country. Maybe pretending they listen or lip service, but most of the time it's politics as usual. They think they know what's best, and that's what happens. Elect me and I'll... then business as usual, empty promises.

I'll try a test, if any world leaders or staff or congress person or their advisors are reading here, for what to do about the Coronavirus outbreak, please reveal yourself? Must be a real name account.

Quote from: jonbull on March 10, 2020, 12:06

Quote from: jjneff on March 10, 2020, 11:57

This is so crazy, now I can't tell you the future but as of now you stand a better chance of dying of heart disease, car accident, weather related injuries, cancer and the list goes on. This is still a very minor virus at this point, you still have more to fear from the flu!!

minor virus?

7% mortality...is minor? good luck

What's your source for that figure?


"What is the mortality rate of the new coronavirus?
It is probably about or a bit less than 1%. Much higher figures have been flying about, but the chief medical officer, Chris Whitty, is one of those who believes it will prove to be 1% or lower. The World Health Organization�s director general, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, talked of 3.4%, but his figure was calculated by dividing the number of deaths by the number of officially confirmed cases. We know there are many more mild cases that do not get to hospital and are not being counted, which would bring the mortality rate significantly down.
Deaths are highest in the elderly, with very low rates among younger people, although medical staff who treat patients and get exposed to a lot of virus are thought to be more at risk. But even among the over-80s, 90% will recover."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/10/coronavirus-facts-mortality-rate-is-there-cure

also see: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51674743
and https://abcnews.go.com/Health/early-mortality-rates-covid-19-misleading-experts/story?id=69477312

death rate at the moment is 8% of closed cases,

According to the site worldmeters the global percentage of deaths is 13% of all closed cases.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Currently there are countries where the number of deaths surpasses by a a huge amount the recovered cases like US, UK or Netherlands.

And then there's the differences in the way each country counts the deaths. In some countries people dying at home will not be subjected to autopsy, and will only be investigated if it has any relation to a known case of coronavirus. So, many deaths by this virus will not be counted because at the time of death it wasn't diagnosed with the virus or anyone close to it.

This means that the death toll could be much higher than official number will record.

This is the most comprehensive site I've found https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries. One other thing to bear in mind is that when health care systems come under the kind of pressure Italy are experiencing people will be dying prematurely from other causes. Another big concern will be the mental health issues this is contributing to and will probably cause issues for years. Now this is going exponential in many countries as predicted the people saying "its only flu" will be going quiet.

trump's reaction has already caused enormous problems - the failure to ramp up supplies when the china outbreak started is leading to massive shortages of supplies and testing. he eliminated the obama group studying & preparing  for pandemics and ignored more recent studies wargaming the effects of a pandemic - for months he claimed it was a democratic & media hoax only to turn around and say he was the first to call it a pandemic and that nobody could have predicted what's happening now.  instead he continues  to dogwhistle about the chinese virus (WHO long ago stopped using country of outbreak in its description of new diseases)

these re-actions aren't irrelevant - they've caused many to underestimate the dangers, with entire states failing to take any pro-active steps.  the current reported cases in the US is low, given the lack of adequate testing, while trump continues to lie about testing being available to all (or maybe he's just referring to all vice-presidents, senators and other politicians)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/infectious-disease-experts-dont-know-how-bad-the-coronavirus-is-going-to-get-either/

trump's reaction has already caused enormous problems - the failure to ramp up supplies when the china outbreak started is leading to massive shortages of supplies and testing. he eliminated the obama group studying & preparing  for pandemics and ignored more recent studies wargaming the effects of a pandemic - for months he claimed it was a democratic & media hoax only to turn around and say he was the first to call it a pandemic and that nobody could have predicted what's happening now.  instead he continues  to dogwhistle about the chinese virus (WHO long ago stopped using country of outbreak in its description of new diseases)

these re-actions aren't irrelevant - they've caused many to underestimate the dangers, with entire states failing to take any pro-active steps.  the current reported cases in the US is low, given the lack of adequate testing, while trump continues to lie about testing being available to all (or maybe he's just referring to all vice-presidents, senators and other politicians)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/infectious-disease-experts-dont-know-how-bad-the-coronavirus-is-going-to-get-either/

Yep!
https://youtu.be/FJuIT0ojx_k

Quote from: Pauws99 on March 19, 2020, 11:39

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on March 19, 2020, 10:30

You can ignore the confirmed cases numbers because the UK has also pretty much not been testing compared to lot of other countries. Another thing the WHO was pleading with them to do more of.

Testing regimes vary widely so I think its probably an unreliable statistic for comparison. Its probably something that can't keep pace while the cases are accelerating. Its accepted in the UK that only those that have potentialy serious effects are being tested. If we have mild indications we are just told to self isolate.

Good points both. China just said "no new cases reported" Which the last word is most important. Plus what both of you pointed out, if someone isn't tested, they aren't confirmed. Self Quarantine in home if you suspect you have the virus, is a good plan, but none of those are counted.

Please folks, stop blaming, accusing, and debating politics, and stick to the virus COVID-19 problem?

Or maybe blame the cause, which seems to be ignored and some are defending, poor sanitary conditions, open markets with animal slaughtering. We can't call this the Wuhan virus, because we're all being politically correct? Yet, there's a never ending attack on just about any leaders or people in power, now "capitalism". LOL

COVID-19 came from China (a Communist country by the way), wet market, where they slaughter live animals in public. And now people are calling for Trump, Putin, Boris and others to fall because of that? Some are blaming humans for being on the planet, global warming, and the vegetarians even more the uppity self-righteous Vegans who blame anyone who eats meat. I read how God is punishing us, how this is a plot, blaming the East, The West or someone else, depending on where the person lives or their political leanings.

What I'm asking it this. Can we stop the endless, useless, politics and blame? COVID-19 is here. Attacking others, other countries, or leaders isn't doing anything but create division and anger, when we need to be more together. Blame or hate is not a cure for anything.

Yes, but we�ll never learn and change our ways if we don�t look at history and see that many of our pandemics...the Spanish flu, HIV, SARS, Mad Cow, H1N1, Covid-19...come from our obsession with eating meat. We catch things from chickens, pigs, bats, cows, monkeys, not because we happen run across them, but because we pack them and ourselves into relatively cramped spaces and slaughter them, exposing ourselves to their diseases in unnatural conditions. And of course, here in the U.S. and increasingly around the world (as our crappy diet takes over) we also suffer from conditions like obesity, diabetes, cancer and heart disease, all caused in large part by eating too much meat and dairy.

Not to mention climate change and mass extinction, also caused by tearing down forests in order to raise animals for slaughter.

We�re killing ourselves and the planet by not eating what doctors and nutritionists recommend, which is a plant-heavy diet.

Pure and simple, the virus is the result of 8 billion humans crowded on a very small, blue planet. And what's the answer? Live a more orderly, safe lifestyle so we can try to handle 16 billion people? 20 billion? As long as we think we can continue to consume and expand and take, Mother Nature will try to interject and balance the negative effects we're having on this planet.

I cannot fully agree on this.

Pure and simple, it could have also been created by men for various logical reasons from depopulation, medical profit all the way to slowing the competition down or just a case of bio weapon gone wrong.

So what is the solution?  Reproduction control and other creepy things that go along. Eugenics? Whats next ? Reproduction of only healthy, beautiful and rich ? Picking into genes "in vitro" to improve intelligence and appearance of rich sons and daughters leaving poor people children to be their stupid ugly and limited workforce? Cause that is already just behind the corner and that is supposed to save the nature ?

This planet can support waaaaay more people than now but other things need to change starting from how we treat the nature and living in symbiosis with it, not *s.u.c.k.i.n.g  the life out of it for profit that is also unequally shared in systems we use.

trump's reaction has already caused enormous problems - the failure to ramp up supplies when the china outbreak started is leading to massive shortages of supplies and testing. he eliminated the obama group studying & preparing  for pandemics and ignored more recent studies wargaming the effects of a pandemic - for months he claimed it was a democratic & media hoax only to turn around and say he was the first to call it a pandemic and that nobody could have predicted what's happening now.  instead he continues  to dogwhistle about the chinese virus (WHO long ago stopped using country of outbreak in its description of new diseases)

these re-actions aren't irrelevant - they've caused many to underestimate the dangers, with entire states failing to take any pro-active steps.  the current reported cases in the US is low, given the lack of adequate testing, while trump continues to lie about testing being available to all (or maybe he's just referring to all vice-presidents, senators and other politicians)

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/infectious-disease-experts-dont-know-how-bad-the-coronavirus-is-going-to-get-either/

you can thank American #fakenews media for Trump's slow reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq8UYYQTYA&

you can thank American #fakenews media for Trump's slow reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq8UYYQTYA&

You can thank Donald Trump for Trump's slow reaction... he's the biggest source of fake news on the planet! Sorry, but if it's come out of his mouth, then it's more likely to be false than it is true.

Not sure if Trump's deranged, but I guess he's not far off.