Author Topic: How do you write a contract? (Read 9115 times)

K46 · « **on:** May 21, 2018, 04:52 »

I was approached recently by a dog breeder to click pictures of her dogs and I've never written a contract. I could approach this two ways:

1) Do the job for her and charge her full
2) Get a release to sell the resulting pictures and charge less.

Do you have any templates that you refer to- it's my first time and I have no clue what bits are a must and what is just excess.

unnonimus · « **Reply #1 on:** May 22, 2018, 06:35 »

there are many web sites that have free forms or cheap forms for photographer and client. search the net and you will find them. they used to always be free but now it is more difficult to get free ones.

if she pays you in full, she owns the copyright, remember that. it would be a work-for-hire.

dpimborough · « **Reply #2 on:** May 22, 2018, 06:58 »

Quote from: unnonimus on May 22, 2018, 06:35

there are many web sites that have free forms or cheap forms for photographer and client. search the net and you will find them. they used to always be free but now it is more difficult to get free ones.

if she pays you in full, she owns the copyright, remember that. it would be a work-for-hire.

Wrong the client does not get the copyright unless the producer/photographer signs it over irrespective of how much is paid

unnonimus · « **Reply #3 on:** May 22, 2018, 08:24 »

you said: "Wrong the client does not get the copyright unless the producer/photographer signs it over irrespective of how much is paid"

wrong. in the USA, according to the US copyright office, under the circumstances of a work for hire, the copyright of the work is transfered upon creation and the photographer would not be a copyright holder at any time even though he took the photos.

unnonimus · « **Reply #4 on:** May 22, 2018, 08:28 »

https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf
Owner of the Copyright in a Work Made for Hire
"If a work is made for hire, the employer or other person for whom the work was prepared [for] is the initial owner of the copyright" (not the photgrapher)

increasingdifficulty · « **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2018, 08:41 »

Delete.

Photobomb · « **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2018, 09:27 »

Quote from: unnonimus on May 22, 2018, 08:28

https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf
Owner of the Copyright in a Work Made for Hire
"If a work is made for hire, the employer or other person for whom the work was prepared [for] is the initial owner of the copyright" (not the photgrapher)

Read the whole thing - The photographer is a freelancer - this is not a 'work for hire' scenario.

dpimborough · « **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2018, 10:51 »

Quote from: unnonimus on May 22, 2018, 08:24

you said: "Wrong the client does not get the copyright unless the producer/photographer signs it over irrespective of how much is paid"

wrong. in the USA, according to the US copyright office, under the circumstances of a work for hire, the copyright of the work is transfered upon creation and the photographer would not be a copyright holder at any time even though he took the photos.

Do you really have to repeat everything with the precursor "you said..."

Anyway you are still wrong "created by an employee as part of their job, " is work for hire

The OP is not an employee he is working free lance.

I do wish you would go read up on these things properly.

Stop misleading people with selective quoting

K46 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2018, 11:54 »

Dear All

I should have prefaced this post mentioning that I have spent days if not weeks digging the internet for free templates and most of them are rip-offs of one in particular. However, this question is about how to WRITE one, not how to use a preexisting one.

Surely we are not lawyers here, but do you know what clauses are absolutely a must?
eg. The Photog and the Customer, the Price to be paid, the estimated total pictures provided, liability, cancellation etc.

I hope my question is more clear and not grounds for deletion anymore.

dpimborough · « **Reply #9 on:** May 22, 2018, 13:36 »

Quote from: K46 on May 22, 2018, 11:54

Dear All

I should have prefaced this post mentioning that I have spent days if not weeks digging the internet for free templates and most of them are rip-offs of one in particular. However, this question is about how to WRITE one, not how to use a preexisting one.

Surely we are not lawyers here, but do you know what clauses are absolutely a must?
eg. The Photog and the Customer, the Price to be paid, the estimated total pictures provided, liability, cancellation etc.

I hope my question is more clear and not grounds for deletion anymore.

You are over thinking the issue.

A contract can be very simple i.e. I agree to supply xx dog portrait photos size xxxx by xxxx pixels

State the price.

How they will be delivered ~ print or digital transfer or on media

State copyright is retained by the photographer.

Put it on a sheet with the heading quotation or estimate

Put your client's address and contact details together with your address and contact details.

Stipulate the payment method and how they are to pay, when they are to pay and how you will deliver the images.

Thats the basis of the offer then get the client to confirm acceptance in writing (email, order form or letter) once they do this you have a contract.

K46 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 22, 2018, 15:02 »

That sounds like me

Thank you!

unnonimus · « **Reply #11 on:** May 25, 2018, 09:36 »

you said: "The photographer is a freelancer - this is not a 'work for hire' scenario"

wrong. he was approached by a woman who asked him to film her animals. it is a work for hire.

freelance would mean he shot a bunch of animals and then proposed selling them to the woman, which he suggested as an alternative.

Photobomb · « **Reply #12 on:** May 25, 2018, 09:53 »

Quote from: unnonimus on May 25, 2018, 09:36

you said: "The photographer is a freelancer - this is not a 'work for hire' scenario"

wrong. he was approached by a woman who asked him to film her animals. it is a work for hire.

freelance would mean he shot a bunch of animals and then proposed selling them to the woman, which he suggested as an alternative.

Thank God there's an ignore button - I recommend everybody put this (can't think of an appropriate adjective) on that list.

niktol · « **Reply #13 on:** May 25, 2018, 10:00 »

Quote from: K46 on May 22, 2018, 11:54

Dear All

I should have prefaced this post mentioning that I have spent days if not weeks digging the internet for free templates and most of them are rip-offs of one in particular. However, this question is about how to WRITE one, not how to use a preexisting one.

Surely we are not lawyers here, but do you know what clauses are absolutely a must?
eg. The Photog and the Customer, the Price to be paid, the estimated total pictures provided, liability, cancellation etc.

I hope my question is more clear and not grounds for deletion anymore.

I dunno, I think you are overthinking this. What I usually do is get some sort of an email agreement with a client, simply to understand what he wants, nothing legally binding. Do the job, then invoice. Works like a charm. If a client is an idiot, it is obvious from the beginning, then it's a polite no. It's a farmer's market of sorts, you buy an apple or a dozen of eggs without any legal paperwork, it's as simple as that.

dpimborough · « **Reply #14 on:** May 25, 2018, 10:06 »

Quote from: unnonimus on May 25, 2018, 09:36

you said: "The photographer is a freelancer - this is not a 'work for hire' scenario"

wrong. he was approached by a woman who asked him to film her animals. it is a work for hire.

freelance would mean he shot a bunch of animals and then proposed selling them to the woman, which he suggested as an alternative.

You not only don't understand but you persist in your arguments which are just wrong.

unnonimus · « **Reply #15 on:** May 25, 2018, 11:52 »

When a person contacts you, and asks you to photograph something, and pays you for it, it is a work for hire situation, and the person paying for and ordering the work is the owner of the copyrights upon creation (not the photographer). This is the situation as presented by the original poster.

The owner of the copyright goes to who produces the work, not to the camera operator. The person that produces the work is the person that pays for, directs, requests, and otherwise controls what the final product is. The situation presented by the original poster is a work for hire. He does not own the copyright to the photos under that situation. He is not acting of his own to create the photos, the client is directing and instructing him as to what she wants in the final product, and therefor, she owns the copyright.

When applying for a copyright with the US copyright office, the person who operates the camera would not be mentioned during the copyright application.

If the original poster had of his own will created his own ideas as to what to film, and then tried to sell his work to the woman, the photographer would be the copyright owner, and the woman would not be. But this is not the case.

dpimborough · « **Reply #16 on:** May 25, 2018, 14:35 »

Quote from: unnonimus on May 25, 2018, 11:52

When a person contacts you, and asks you to photograph something, and pays you for it, it is a work for hire situation, and the person paying for and ordering the work is the owner of the copyrights upon creation (not the photographer). This is the situation as presented by the original poster.

The owner of the copyright goes to who produces the work, not to the camera operator. The person that produces the work is the person that pays for, directs, requests, and otherwise controls what the final product is. The situation presented by the original poster is a work for hire. He does not own the copyright to the photos under that situation. He is not acting of his own to create the photos, the client is directing and instructing him as to what she wants in the final product, and therefor, she owns the copyright.

When applying for a copyright with the US copyright office, the person who operates the camera would not be mentioned during the copyright application.

If the original poster had of his own will created his own ideas as to what to film, and then tried to sell his work to the woman, the photographer would be the copyright owner, and the woman would not be. But this is not the case.

Dom you are a troll

I just finished photographing a $1.5million property the images remain as my copyright. The only way that would change is if I decided to sign over copyright and the client would be charged for that and it would be stipulated in the Ts & Cs.

And you are so out of the ball park with this total lack of understanding of copyright that it's an embarrassment to read this.

Just go back to producing your musak videos in LA LA land

unnonimus · « **Reply #17 on:** May 26, 2018, 21:11 »

you said: "I just finished photographing a $1.5million property the images remain as my copyright."

that has nothing to do with the original poster. the original poster described a work for hire arrangement under which he would not be the copyright owner.

unnonimus · « **Reply #18 on:** May 26, 2018, 21:12 »

mr K46,

my advice is that you take the money from her upfront and forget about trying to earn money from stock. chances are you might make in the low hundreds or less for stock photos of the dogs, and you should be able to get more as a work for hire type thing.

dpimborough · « **Reply #19 on:** May 27, 2018, 03:10 »

Quote from: unnonimus on May 26, 2018, 21:11

you said: "I just finished photographing a $1.5million property the images remain as my copyright."

that has nothing to do with the original poster. the original poster described a work for hire arrangement under which he would not be the copyright owner.

As usual selective recall and selective quoting

I'm putting you on the ignore list because I'm sick of reading your posts

Bye

unnonimus · « **Reply #20 on:** May 27, 2018, 16:42 »

you said: "As usual selective recall and selective quoting I'm putting you on the ignore list because I'm sick of reading your posts"

you did not put enough information in your post for people to determine if you are the copyright owner or not, you just declared yourself the copyright own of some photo you took, which may or may not be true.

the original poster did put enough information in his post for us to know whether he was the copyright owner or not.

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Author Topic: How do you write a contract? (Read 9115 times)

K46

unnonimus

dpimborough

unnonimus

unnonimus

increasingdifficulty

Photobomb

dpimborough

K46

dpimborough

K46

unnonimus

Photobomb

niktol

dpimborough

unnonimus

dpimborough

unnonimus

unnonimus

dpimborough

unnonimus

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