Author Topic: Advice Needed (Read 3754 times)

rdu · « **on:** June 16, 2023, 16:43 »

Hello, I would like an advice since I really don't know what to do. I will try to keep it very short, although the story is a long one to tell fully.

Moved recently in a very rich part of the world and started a photography business in real estate. Very hard to get clients as market is oversaturated, at least here with i am sorry to say - bad photographers. I come with new and modern refreshed look which is over what is here and i was really recognized this. But i dont want to fall appart from the subject.

I recently had a client (a big real estate agency) who wanted an apartment to shoot for them to sell. Its a 500k apartment. The agent was really happy the apartment was an expensive one because of course he would get a larger cut.

He said to me that the shooting is on a Saturday and that he wants the photos ready monday morning that he would post the ad faster. I went there on the Saturday took all the photos in about 1h and with editing by the way i do them so the result would be perfect it took me around 9 more hours. The price i charged was so low i can't even tell the price here. I sent the invoice before the shooting. On Monday, the agent received the photos and thanked me saying that the result is absolutley amazing and he will surely sell the apartment fast and with even more money that he would of wanted to post. Well.....2 weeks past and the agent DID NOT sent me the money (i repeat i am ashamed to say the price i asked and i promissed myself that i would not be doing that again with nobody - i would rather stay home and do nothing than that.)

How would you react to this? What would you do?

Should i lower myself and send messages for him to send me the money? Or should i let it go and never ever have to deal with them?

I really would need an advice and if you need other info please let me know.

Every advice is really appreciated. Thank you.

cobalt · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2023, 17:00 »

Can you go to his office and show up unannounced and in person?

In my experience it is easy to ignore letters or reminders or phonecalls.

But if you drop by without apppointment, very friendly and professional…asking if everything is ok, do any of the images need amendment, does he have any questions and then of course casually remind you would appreciate getting paid, especially because you gave him such a great bargain price….

And then I would drop by another 2, 3 times, every week if needed…or even every day…always friendly, but persistent.

If they keep seeing your face, you will get paid.

It is much cheaper than involving a lawyer and if you stay friendly and professional, they will work with you again, especially if they liked your images.

You worked for this money, you deserve to get paid.

It might also help to point that you look forward to giving him a great google review once the process is complete…

cloudvisual · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2023, 17:28 »

Wait for the photos to go up online and then DMCA them with the host. You own the copyright and they've not paid, so they can potentially have their website taken down for copyright infringement.

Further to that, if they do go online, you can send a second invoice for copyright infringement. Using a copyrighted photo without paying incurs a fine.

f8 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 16, 2023, 18:32 »

What were the terms of payment on your invoice? Depending on the client it should be either payment upon receipt of images, payment due in 15 days of receipt of invoice, or payment due in 30 days of receipt of invoice. Real estate agents are notorious for slow and delayed payment.

Why did it take you 9 hours of editing? That is a very long time for editing an our worth of real estate photography.

Wilm · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2023, 01:00 »

From my point of view, you should wait.

We have customers who pay within 24 hours and we have customers who need 3 months. Most clients pay within 2 to 4 weeks.

So there would be no reason for me to worry yet.

stoker2014 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2023, 04:25 »

1. If the amount of money is scanty, I would not waste my time.
2. Don't work without a contract. This will protect you later in court. As I understand it, you did not conclude a contract (you probably do not want to pay taxes).
3. Wait for the client to post your photos, and sue him for stealing your photos, I think you can earn a lot more money on this court case.
4. There are no freelancers on this forum, only stock photographers. Upload your photos to stock agencies!
The photos of the house or apartment you took are what stocks need. On stocks you will recover your costs.

rdu · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2023, 05:20 »

Thank you for your answers.

I work without a contract because here everybody laughs when i did that and did not want to work with signed contract, then found out its only mouth to mouth contract. I do pay taxes as i issue invoices and money goes directly into bank and i declare them.

This is not necessary money issue to me as i would of thought the same if it was 1$. Its the principle, who i care about as i am a trusty man or word.

The photos took so much to edit as really i take them 1 by one and make them magazine style, turn a dark and ugly apartment into something bright and clear. Its my passion and want to do something different.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2023, 07:50 »

LOL, they literally haven't even chased the invoice.

Have you considered that they have forgotten? If not have you considered that they could be a scum bag, or working in an industry that has a scummy culture, but not actually looking to outright defraud you.

Lots of (not moral) business people have a policy of not paying until an invoice has been chased once or even twice. I wouldn’t work with that sort of person again, but checking in to find out what the hold up is standard.

ShadySue · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2023, 08:06 »

Quote from: rdu on June 17, 2023, 05:20

The photos took so much to edit as really i take them 1 by one and make them magazine style, turn a dark and ugly apartment into something bright and clear. Its my passion and want to do something different.

Depending on the country, you might have to be careful that you don't make the apartment more beautiful than it really is. Here in the UK for example, that could get you into legal trouble (e.g. when working for an estate agent). If you're just doing in post what you could have done in capture if you had the appropriate (expensive!) lighting gear, that's probably different (IANAL).

Hannafate · « **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2023, 08:15 »

My best advice is to learn from this and never deliver images that haven't been paid for again.

f8 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2023, 09:05 »

Quote from: stoker2014 on June 17, 2023, 04:25

4. There are no freelancers on this forum, only stock photographers.

Really? I'd hate to rain on your parade but you are way off base on this ill informed comment. I have been freelancing for a very long time and done incredibly well with it. In addition shooting stock has also been a sideline since before micro stock was even around.

If you had any experience freelancing you would heed the advice I posted above which is based on invoicing clients all over the world for the last 30+ years.

In fact, your whole reply is bad advice if you are concerned about professionalism.

Just_to_inform_people2 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 17, 2023, 09:37 »

Quote from: rdu on June 16, 2023, 16:43

Hello, I would like an advice since I really don't know what to do. I will try to keep it very short, although the story is a long one to tell fully.

Moved recently in a very rich part of the world and started a photography business in real estate. Very hard to get clients as market is oversaturated, at least here with i am sorry to say - bad photographers. I come with new and modern refreshed look which is over what is here and i was really recognized this. But i dont want to fall appart from the subject.

I recently had a client (a big real estate agency) who wanted an apartment to shoot for them to sell. Its a 500k apartment. The agent was really happy the apartment was an expensive one because of course he would get a larger cut.

He said to me that the shooting is on a Saturday and that he wants the photos ready monday morning that he would post the ad faster. I went there on the Saturday took all the photos in about 1h and with editing by the way i do them so the result would be perfect it took me around 9 more hours. The price i charged was so low i can't even tell the price here. I sent the invoice before the shooting. On Monday, the agent received the photos and thanked me saying that the result is absolutley amazing and he will surely sell the apartment fast and with even more money that he would of wanted to post. Well.....2 weeks past and the agent DID NOT sent me the money (i repeat i am ashamed to say the price i asked and i promissed myself that i would not be doing that again with nobody - i would rather stay home and do nothing than that.)

How would you react to this? What would you do?

Should i lower myself and send messages for him to send me the money? Or should i let it go and never ever have to deal with them?

I really would need an advice and if you need other info please let me know.

Every advice is really appreciated. Thank you.

Two things I don't understand here:
1) Since when is a 500k appartment (in whichever currency) an expensive appartment especially if it is in "a very rich part of the world" as you say it?
2) Did you even try to contact the person/company in a normal manner before getting all paranoid about your payment? Many reasons why it does not necessarily have to be bad intent. It might in the end, but you are jumping really fast to conclusions here based upon what you have written.

tätarätä · « **Reply #12 on:** June 18, 2023, 02:55 »

Quote from: rdu on June 16, 2023, 16:43

On Monday, the agent received the photos and thanked me saying that the result is absolutley amazing and he will surely sell the apartment fast and with even more money that he would of wanted to post. Well.....2 weeks past and the agent DID NOT sent me the money

You edit slow and bill fast.
Dont panic you probably will get the money in a few days or weeks.
But i guess they won't pay 9 hours editing for a simple job.

qunamax · « **Reply #13 on:** June 18, 2023, 07:03 »

Quote from: rdu on June 16, 2023, 16:43

Hello, I would like an advice since I really don't know what to do. I will try to keep it very short, although the story is a long one to tell fully.

Moved recently in a very rich part of the world and started a photography business in real estate. Very hard to get clients as market is oversaturated, at least here with i am sorry to say - bad photographers. I come with new and modern refreshed look which is over what is here and i was really recognized this. But i dont want to fall appart from the subject.

I recently had a client (a big real estate agency) who wanted an apartment to shoot for them to sell. Its a 500k apartment. The agent was really happy the apartment was an expensive one because of course he would get a larger cut.

He said to me that the shooting is on a Saturday and that he wants the photos ready monday morning that he would post the ad faster. I went there on the Saturday took all the photos in about 1h and with editing by the way i do them so the result would be perfect it took me around 9 more hours. The price i charged was so low i can't even tell the price here. I sent the invoice before the shooting. On Monday, the agent received the photos and thanked me saying that the result is absolutley amazing and he will surely sell the apartment fast and with even more money that he would of wanted to post. Well.....2 weeks past and the agent DID NOT sent me the money (i repeat i am ashamed to say the price i asked and i promissed myself that i would not be doing that again with nobody - i would rather stay home and do nothing than that.)

How would you react to this? What would you do?

Should i lower myself and send messages for him to send me the money? Or should i let it go and never ever have to deal with them?

I really would need an advice and if you need other info please let me know.

Every advice is really appreciated. Thank you.

Ha, where I come that's just a normal business life, you have to call them everyday until they run out excuses and pay. Just call him, nothing low about asking for your money, however low it might be, he should feel low for not paying it. If you want to run your own business you need to learn to be more aggressive even if it's not in your nature, as it stands you are too apologetic, sharks will smell it on you and take advantage of it. You know your worth, own it. Good luck with new business.

Shuttershock · « **Reply #14 on:** June 21, 2023, 07:28 »

1) Since when is a 500k appartment (in whichever currency) an expensive appartment especially if it is in "a very rich part of the world" as you say it?

500k is an expensive house in most parts of the world never mind an apartment

cobalt · « **Reply #15 on:** June 21, 2023, 07:40 »

Sadly here in Germany that is not expensive at all. Maybe for a one room apartment, but not for a house or two rooms with a nice balcony in a good area.

And we are not talking London, Paris or Zurich.

dragonblade · « **Reply #16 on:** August 07, 2023, 09:25 »

Quote from: cloudvisual on June 16, 2023, 17:28

Wait for the photos to go up online and then DMCA them with the host. You own the copyright and they've not paid, so they can potentially have their website taken down for copyright infringement.

Further to that, if they do go online, you can send a second invoice for copyright infringement. Using a copyrighted photo without paying incurs a fine.

Generally, in scenarios like this, the client owns the rights to the images, not the photographer. Unless there is a contract that states otherwise. Though this may depend on the laws of the country where the photography work was done.

cascoly · « **Reply #17 on:** August 07, 2023, 15:13 »

Quote from: dragonblade on August 07, 2023, 09:25

Quote from: cloudvisual on June 16, 2023, 17:28
Wait for the photos to go up online and then DMCA them with the host. You own the copyright and they've not paid, so they can potentially have their website taken down for copyright infringement.

Further to that, if they do go online, you can send a second invoice for copyright infringement. Using a copyrighted photo without paying incurs a fine.

Generally, in scenarios like this, the client owns the rights to the images, not the photographer. Unless there is a contract that states otherwise. Though this may depend on the laws of the country where the photography work was done.

in the US it's the reverse the photographer/creator automatically owns the copyright, though knowledgable clients will be sure it's designated 'work for hire'

dragonblade · « **Reply #18 on:** August 07, 2023, 20:26 »

Quote from: cascoly on August 07, 2023, 15:13

in the US it's the reverse the photographer/creator automatically owns the copyright

Yea here in Australia, it's very much the same generally. The person who takes the photograph owns the copyright to the image. The exception is if a client pays you money to take photographs for him / her. In that case, copyright of the images is transferred to the client.

dragonblade · « **Reply #19 on:** August 07, 2023, 20:34 »

Actually, it looks like it's a very similar situation under US law - according to this article.

https://www.copyright.gov/engage/photographers/

If you read the section titled "A Note on Works Made for Hire", it points out that copyright of the photographs belong to the client / employer.

SpaceStockFootage · « **Reply #20 on:** August 07, 2023, 21:31 »

That usually relies on you being paid though. No payment, no ownership... you still own the rights. Although a decent chunk of clients still stick to the slightly outdated process of 30 day invoicing unless agreed otherwise, so I'd try to keep everything civil until the 30 days have passed.

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Author Topic: Advice Needed (Read 3754 times)

rdu

cobalt

cloudvisual

f8

Wilm

stoker2014

rdu

Justanotherphotographer

ShadySue

Hannafate

f8

Just_to_inform_people2

tätarätä

qunamax

Shuttershock

cobalt

dragonblade

cascoly

dragonblade

dragonblade

SpaceStockFootage

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