Well, i live in a third world country (Venezuela).

Does Payoneer or PayPal work in Venezuela?

Quote from: alexandersr on February 23, 2025, 20:40

Well, i live in a third world country (Venezuela).

Does Payoneer or PayPal work in Venezuela?

They both work in Venezuela. (I hope they don't give up, many Venezuelan freelancers get paid using them).

Quote from: stoker2014 on February 24, 2025, 08:40

Quote from: alexandersr on February 23, 2025, 20:40

Well, i live in a third world country (Venezuela).

Does Payoneer or PayPal work in Venezuela?

They both work in Venezuela. (I hope they don't give up, many Venezuelan freelancers get paid using them).

What are the prices on the real estate market? (apartment, house). This refers to purchasing a home, not renting it. It is clear that there must be a maximally safe place if there is one in Venezuela.

Contrary to what some may believe, $100 is not sufficient to live comfortably anywhere.

As another member pointed out, $500 might enable some people to live "comfortably" in many developing countries. However, they could earn more by focusing on corporate shoots.

I just put a random amount up there  I was just acknowledging the point Stock4me made.
But even then in a lot of countries, in Africa and the Middle-East, $100 a month is above average income. So for those people I would say it would be interesting to engage in Microstock.

Quote from: Stock4Me on February 23, 2025, 09:43

Only 1289 people in the world ahead of you. Very small number of people making a living at this while sales and income are dropping.

The estimated annual revenues from the merger between Getty and Shutterstock will be 2 billion dollars.

Given the earnings of us, contributors, we can estimate that Adobe Stock also has 1 billion in revenues.

Total 3 billion from the 3 main competitors in this market.

And from 3 billion only 1000/1500 contributors manage to make a full-time salary?

This is incredible in my eyes.

But I wonder: Do the agencies take a slice of the profit too big or is the cake divided into too small slices? 

Aside from "where do you live" and all that. And how much is enough to live on.

I think the answer to your two part question is both. As an example of the agencies taking too much of a slice for themselves. How would someplace like 123RF or Deposit be able to stay in business, if they paid us a fair share. They are both companies that are staying alive, only because they can still make some sort of profit, from artists who supply images and video for a minuscule earnings reward. Eventually they will fail. I'm surprised they are still in business.

Is the cake divided into too small of a slice because of too many contributors? Maybe, but as you pointed out, only the top, the factories and maybe some like Cobalt, who make a serious effort to produce new work, and also study what sells and what's in demand, are making enough to possibly make a living wage from Microstock.

Using the more recent number and I still say it's like a cork floating on the waves, the rank/position, goes up and down. What we should be looking at is not the crests and troughs, but the average position. Looking at things daily for a weekly rank is just too many points and too variable. The best view, in my opinion,is at most Monthly, once a month.

That number will reflect the income and download, peaks and valleys with the average, in a more sensible form. Looking at daily income from Microstock is just watching too close. Also since there are the obvious trends, Saturday stinks, Sunday isn't very special, Friday people are usually working a short day... weekly average, makes for a smoother viewpoint. Unfortunately the "Position" from Adobe is unreliable in any sense, since it's only downloads, not income.

The fact that no one knows how it works and the claim that it's 7 days, including the last 7 days, which is impossible, because it goes back to zero on Sunday night, makes the who idea of watching position, daily, or weekly, even more absurd.

Oh yeah, back to the question. Sorry. Yes I think you are right on both points. The agencies don't pay us a fair percentage. Adobe comes the closest, at 33%. The rest that are 15% or the one that includes the silly dime Singles and the reset are a terrible insult. But then, it's a take it or leave it marketplace for many people, as there's no other way to scuffle for nickles and dimes, from making Stock Products.

The losers, bottom feeder agencies, don't have enough sales volume to make sense for anyone who's actually trying to make a living from Microstock. The only favorable consideration is, the artist already has all the images, with the data, so it's really not much additional effort to add images to the parasite agencies. On an individual level, that might work and be helpful, but for the entire industry, every time, someone adds images to the parasites that don't pay well and are giving us an insulting low percentage, that undercuts the agencies that do give us a reliable return and volume.

So, while we may not be competing directly with our own images, the effect of supporting the parasites is driving the value of the entire market down. And that's where the low paying agencies beat us all into the ground with low pay and low earnings, because too many people are so desperate that they will take fractional cents from places like Freepik or Envato or Miricanvas and so many others.

Whether it's 2,000 accounts, or some other debatable number, the point is, there's not enough business, not enough return and not enough money, for someone to make a living wage from Microstock, except for a very small number of people or businesses. That's in the World! Pretty elite business that says, only 1% of the people who are trying to make a living at it, are a success.

I will admit, people who try and are serious are more than 1%, it's just that if there are 200,000 people who have something online, the return on that is dismal. Personally, from experience and the past, I'd say it's very possible that 5% of the people who work at Microstock are making a true business profit.

For Cobalt as an example, being 2,000 or 3,000 is pretty good and a compliment to her hard work, smart work, paying attention and doing what's right. If I'm usually around 25,000 sometimes higher, sometimes lower, and I represent part time, hobby. That shows something about how few people are serious or making money from this. To be clear, not weeks or months, and I only started when Adobe bought FT, my Lifetime right now is 26,200th.

I'm not very good, I don't work hard, I barely have 1,000 images (1,046), I don't do video. 26,200 of all the people on Adobe. What's the message about how successful others are? And Adobe is my best agency right now, but lifetime I've made more on SS or Alamy, since I started in 2008.

Good, long  story Peter. But even Cobalt who is doing a seriously effort doesn't get further then like $100 a week (at least last week it seems like that). Maybe $200 0r $300 a week when luck is her way? That is not enough in the western world we live in to get bills paid. Unless you have wellfare on the side and don't report income.
Maybe ZeroTalent has enough income to come by (haven't heard from him for a while now though). But otherwise it seems pretty useless to pursue a living from Microstock no matter what history there was how we got to this point in time.

Navigate to page 25 https://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/this-month's-sales/600/ and see  Reply #615 on: February 01, 2025, 22:58.

 

Good, long  story Peter. But even Cobalt who is doing a seriously effort doesn't get further then like $100 a week (at least last week it seems like that). Maybe $200 0r $300 a week when luck is her way? That is not enough in the western world we live in to get bills paid. Unless you have wellfare on the side and don't report income.
Maybe ZeroTalent has enough income to come by (haven't heard from him for a while now though). But otherwise it seems pretty useless to pursue a living from Microstock no matter what history there was how we got to this point in time.

Last year my average was around 800 dollars a month, from a few hundred to over 1600 in a month. And only my Adobe port was "activated", the rest was income without uploading for nearly 11 years. (except eyeem, but they are currently dead)

On Adobe my port grew by around 4000 files to around 7000 by end of 2024.

I have only been active again, since end of 2022. So basically two years and my adobe port was around 1400 old files when I restarted it.

I think that is a good result.

January was around 750 over all agencies, now with istock results. 58% more in total than Jan 2024.

So...no, I have not yet reached 3k a month.

But for the situation I have no complaints.

Stock is not dead and I am confident I will reach my goals.

But I can't reach them in 6-18 months.

If I had put that effort into a faceless youtube channel, etsy sticker shop, coloring amazon books, chatgpt quickbooks...or a weightloss youtube channel...how I lost 40kg with no drugs and no surgery...maybe I would earn more.

Or just selling french fries and burgers...

But I like this job and want to get back to a higher income.

However for portfolio size, what kind of income do people expect for now 7800 files on adobe and a few old ports?

You are all welcome to earn more

eta

I am documenting my journey, because people keep saying it is impossible to grow and earn more. Yet, here we are.

This is just adobe. Beginning to look quite nice. I still need a lot more, but...

eta2

for a reliable 3k a month over all agencies I will certainly need at least 30k files.

or 20k very smart files.

And probably at least another three years.

eta3

When I reach a reliable 12-1500 I will probably stop documenting.

Now usually many files don't sell at all and very, very few will sell reliable 1000 times a year.

Just curious, do you have files selling over 1000 times a year? I never managed that feat on Adobe. Probably in the past on Shutterstock, but I don't have any data anymore since I deleted my portfolio there.

I had a very mundane and boring file that sold over 800 times in its first year, then 600  the second then 300 last year. This year will probably be a lot less, because it had very few sales so far.

Really good! Yes, search ranking is often just pure luck. I have a file which over the years made multiple thousands of downloads, which is of similar quality as other people's files of the same subject. I never understood why my file is so popular, probably pure luck as well.

Good, long  story Peter. But even Cobalt who is doing a seriously effort doesn't get further then like $100 a week (at least last week it seems like that). Maybe $200 0r $300 a week when luck is her way? That is not enough in the western world we live in to get bills paid. Unless you have wellfare on the side and don't report income.
Maybe ZeroTalent has enough income to come by (haven't heard from him for a while now though). But otherwise it seems pretty useless to pursue a living from Microstock no matter what history there was how we got to this point in time.

Thanks for NOT quoting the short story. 

The whole idea, inspired me to create the latest forum poll, and what do you know, people are really doing very well on Adobe, in terms of "Position". Leaf used to do an annual poll, and someone did do one this year, for a general earnings type of thing.

In general, and I don't try very hard, I make more from eBay than I do on Microstock. That's just cherrypicking things from the local estate auctions. I'd rather be making photos. You're right, even some of the good and successful people, have other sources of income, that are greater than Microstock.

Yes, I am very confident that I can return to something between 2-3k a month on average. I would love a steady 4k, but I cannot make that projection now, I can think about how to achieve that once I reach a reliable 2k.

My main dilemma is that I am not producing/uploading full time, because I am a family carer. That just sucks a lot of time and energy out of me.

Most days I spend from 8-2pm on the computer, then family work from 2-7/8pm and then maybe 1-3 hours on the computer again, depending how tired I am.

Sometimes I can squeeze in a full day, but not always and on that day I also have errands to run.

So, let us say I have 60% work capacity.

Last year I made on average 800 dollars a month and added 4000 files mostly to Adobe.

So this year I would like to reach a minimum of 1000 average, ideally 1200-1500, depends a lot on the end of year sales which are often more than 50% of my yearly revenue.

January 25 was 60% more than Jan 24. Feb 25 will also be at least 60% more. And just for Adobe actually 80% more  compared to February 24.

In absolute terms the months will be around 750 dollars (over all agencies). Again not enough to live from but the increase is very good.

I currently have 7900 files on Adobe.

And istock, video overall, more for blackbox have all still not been "activated" because I am still processing so much content for Adobe.

But this week-end I have my first editorial/ carnival shooting for the year, together with a stocker friend. And I am working on organising camera content shared shootings with others, mostly centered around food. I would like to build up a nice "real authentic daily life" food video port with a clearly visible German/localized twist.

Lately I have been doing a lot of research on video and it is even more open than I thought.

I just need to get into the habit of processing and uploading my videos. The average for video sales is around 8 dollars on Adobe, around 15 on pond5. istock is very erratic and I still have very few videos there.

Stock is a job I absolutely love to do, I can also still do it into my retirement and my current pension is tiny anyway.

And it fits in perfectly with any family demands. Once the ports are activated and running i could even be ill for a few weeks and still have an income.


---



So, let us say just from Adobe I would like to have a reliable 30 000 downloads a year. At a baseline of 70 cents rpd that would be 21k just from Adobe.

This could be achieved with 30 files selling 1000 times each.

Or 30 000 files selling once each.

If 2025 has 40% more downloads than 2024, then  on Adobe alone I should be able to reach nearly 1k a month average for this year.

Then there is the question how much I can activate other places, although the real financial increase will probably start coming next year, not this year.

etc...

So my current plan says i will probably reach my target in 2 years and should see a very good increase this year.

Now...how do I survive until then...well, I am looking into many options, especially lowering running costs.



Biggest risks on Adobe


- the crazy hunter killer algo that could deactivate my port at any time without me doing anything criminal or wrong. I think it is absolutely horrible that Adobe keeps hanging that threat over our head.

- the copy cats, mostly ai copycats

Since I am going for a long tail portfolio with mostly very niche images that I expect to sell 1-3 times a year, not 100 or 1000 times a year, i hope my port will not be so attractive for duplicators.

I will do a lot of localized camera content which is difficult to copy from people in other countries. (like the local carnival, localized food etc..)

Hiding successful files, especially video, on places like Blackboxglobal where my total port is not visible under my name.

Also the very long Adobe queue helps, especially for seasonal content. By the time my holiday files are approved it is too late for the copy cats, their files won't reach easter or christmas in time for this years season.

Greeting cards anyway have so much competition even with a large ai volume it is very hard to get into that market. I have the algo advantage because I have an old portfolio...


Biggest overall risks

 - a deep recession because of world political nonsense, especially the orange menace madness coming out of the USA.

Again a reason why I would love to have more European centric content, I think our markets will grow closer and maybe become even stronger in the coming trade wars.

- I become ill and cannot produce or work, or my caring situation becomes even more demanding/full time. But you cannot plan that anyway, i can just try to stay healthy and organize our lives carefully


etc...

So...I obviously spend a lot of time analysing and wondering - can it still work??

And I think for my very personal case, somewhere between 20 years experience, good research skills AND old ports with good algo positions, yes I think it is possible with very hard work.

Also having lower costs because I own my little home. If I had to pay rent, especially in this location, it would be impossible, but since i only pay around 600 a month for utilities, fees and taxes as an owner, it works.

So..with a lot of personal details...I genuinely believe it is possible IN MY CASE.

Which doesn't translate to everyone and especially not to total newbies just starting out.

Cobalt,

Interesting assessment of your situation. Thanks for sharing your story.

Yes paying rent / mortgage is expensive and very expensive here in south Sydney where I live. My capacity for uploading is limited as I work a full-time job, though fortunately in the public service where conditions and retirement employer contributions are very good. However working full-time is a drag. Anyway yes that was 2000 - 2700 since November 2021 to each of the four ports I should add.

The thing is, this worked really well especially in 2023 and slowed down noticeably in 2024, and has slowed further in 2025. Shutterstock in particular has just about collapsed... at least in terms of earnings. So the challenge of diminished / falling earnings is something I can't keep up with as I don't have the time to upload as much as may be needed in the current stock environment.

Another risk I feel is Adobe Stock's auditing of portfolios to remove what they identify as duplicates. I got the email. Nothing in my port is necessarily a duplicate but rather a series of clips from (mainly) aerial drone shoots. So have to see how this plays out.         

Yes I got that email as well. It is intentionally ambiguous and I don't think they mean actual pixel by pixel duplicats in my own port.

I think they are going after people who upload the exact same images to several different ports. Or the people that buy a "ready made" set of ai images, fully keyworded... but are not aware that the same set is being sold to hundreds of people.

And maybe also the near identical ai images that are being constantly uploaded because people use the exact same prompt on the exact same image generator.

Or they feed adobe bestsellers into the generators for near exact duplication.

I do think in principle it is a good move, but I am concerned.

Even with the best intentions...if there is a hunter duplicate algo software, who knows what it fines???

I also have many similar or identical titles - Easter bunny with easter eggs...if they get flagged because of similar titles, my port might die...

Yes agree, and good points with regard to the bold text. This I would be very supportive of actually.