Author Topic: EOS 40D vs 400D? (Read 18343 times)

Peter · « **on:** December 02, 2007, 09:37 »

Canon EOS 400D - 500 euros (730$)
Canon EOS 40D - 1100 euros (1600$)

Is it really worth double of money? I do not need live view, or hi-speed 6fps. Both are 1.6x croop sensor, 10MP.

The only thing I like on 40D is ISO 3200, and generaly less noise on all ISO speeds comparing to 400D.

But is it really worth double of money?

Any rumours on possible 450D comming?

GeoPappas · « **Reply #1 on:** December 02, 2007, 09:44 »

Quote from: Chode on December 02, 2007, 09:37

Any rumours on possible 450D comming?

Yes. Canon 450D is supposed to be released in February along with a possible replacement for 5D.

vonkara · « **Reply #2 on:** December 02, 2007, 10:27 »

Quote from: Chode on December 02, 2007, 09:37

Canon EOS 400D - 500 euros (730$)
Canon EOS 40D - 1100 euros (1600$)

Is it really worth double of money? I do not need live view, or hi-speed 6fps. Both are 1.6x croop sensor, 10MP.

The only thing I like on 40D is ISO 3200, and generaly less noise on all ISO speeds comparing to 400D.

But is it really worth double of money?

Any rumours on possible 450D comming?

I agree, there's not just less noise at 3200, but at 400 and 800 too. The viewfinder is much better on what I heard. I don't know for a possible 450D but I don't think it's gone beat what 40D does. It's just an other category for me.

I know Cyclope have a brand new 40D, maybe he can tell us more about?

Peiling · « **Reply #3 on:** December 02, 2007, 10:56 »

oh..that means 400D price will come down....is it good??...perhaps i can buy a 400D.....

GeoPappas · « **Reply #4 on:** December 02, 2007, 11:36 »

Quote from: Peiling on December 02, 2007, 10:56

oh..that means 400D price will come down....is it good??...perhaps i can buy a 400D.....

400D is already down to $550. How much lower do you think it's going to go?

araminta · « **Reply #5 on:** December 02, 2007, 13:45 »

Difficult situation for Canon (and Nikon as well):

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/compare_post.asp?method=sidebyside&cameras=canon_eos40d%2Ccanon_eos400d%2Cnikon_d40x%2Cnikon_d300&show=all

The 450D must fit between the 400D and the 40D while beating the Nikon D40x.

I only hope that the 450D will get the better noise reduction of the 40D (DIGIC III), otherwise I don't see a lot of useful improvements for me. A new 12MP sensor would be fine, but very unlikely as the 40D has a 10MP. Probably the bigger viewfinder will find its way into the 450D.

An auto ISO option would also be very useful (provided that one can define a max ISO value).

What dou you see in the 450D?

Peter · « **Reply #6 on:** December 02, 2007, 14:57 »

I think it will be 12MP. And less noise, is all I need! Nothing else!

30D had 8MP, and 400D had 10MP. Why couldnt 450D have 12MP then.... they are not in the same class.

le_cyclope · « **Reply #7 on:** December 02, 2007, 18:33 »

Yes, as Vonkara said, I got one few months ago...

And I still love it

The only thing I like less is the 10.2 Mpx, but since I was upgrading from a 350D (Rebel XT), it was an improvment but not enough to my opinion. I still do not have access to the XL file size at iStock.

But believe me, picture quality is greater and you have much more control over it.

Chode, you do a lot of object photography; believe me, the Liveview features is something you'll love. With it, you can fully control your camera from your computer, INCLUDING the focus! You have the live photo on your screen, allowing you to zoom in 10X (on your screen) and then adjusting manually focus (from your computer) while you check every part of your picture. And only then you take the picture. Results are amazing!

Also, it is much much easier for my old eyes to navigate trough the menus with the huge screen of the 40D.

Claude

Peter · « **Reply #8 on:** December 03, 2007, 02:39 »

tnx for the info! it might be interesting, but it is still too expensive for me.

stokfoto · « **Reply #9 on:** December 03, 2007, 06:05 »

I am waiting for the release of replacement of 5d so I hope to buy 5d for a little less.but I assume price of 5d won't go lower so much as it's a great camera.
as for comparing 40d and 400d if I already owned a 400d I wouldn't bother buying a 40d(although I am aware of the differences between the two) but if it was going to be my first DSLR on a lets call it a 'small budget' I know it is expensive enough but comparing to price of 1ds mark III ,that's a small budget) then I would go for the 40d.
I too could do without the live view it isn't that important to me I guess new 5d(replacement ) will also have it and I guess it will be like 14 or 15mp I don't think they will equal the number of pixels to 1ds mark II's

sbonk · « **Reply #10 on:** December 03, 2007, 22:13 »

I have a new 40D. I upgraded from a 350D and I can make comparisons between these two, but not a 400D. I have had the 40D for only about 3 weeks or so and I am still getting to know all the features.

With my 350D, I left it on ISO 100 almost all the time. If I shot at ISO 200, I noticed a pretty big drop in quality. WIth the 40D, ISO 200 is my standard ISO. This is mostly because I like Highlight Priority mode and this is not available with less than ISO 200. The ISO 200 quality is great, much better than 350D ISO 200. So far, I have not played much with higher ISO than this. I will soon.

The auto focus is also a big improvement over the 350D.

The custom controls C1, C2, and C3 I also like very much. You can use these to store any combination of camera settings. Then just turn the dial and you instantly are ready to go.

basti · « **Reply #11 on:** February 26, 2008, 11:38 »

Guys, sorry, but why the heck do you compare low end cheap plastic body (400D) with semiprofi metal splash and dust proof body(40D)? Thats the real advantage of 40D against 400D. Just try to use your 400D in rain, extreme dust or give it some nasty shock and you will soon enough discover the real difference...

40D has also other advantages, but its durability is very far beyond 400D. 400D was not made for every day use, especially not outdoors.

Eco · « **Reply #12 on:** February 26, 2008, 12:21 »

At some point in time I owned them all: 10D, 20D, 30D, 40D and 400D. I only shoot RAW and after processing hundreds of images of all these cameras it is clear that the best sensor of them all is the 8.2 MP sensor used in the 20D/30D. I bought a 40D to replace my 30D and also bought a 400D as a light weight travel camera. I sold my wife's 350D and gave her my 30D. Guess what? I took back my 30D and gave her the 400D. I never had problems submitting the 8.2 MP images from my 30D at their original size, while with the 40D and 400D I often have to downsize my images to avoid rejection for artefact or noise. Don't let Canon fool you. They reduced the default sharpening of the new 10MP cameras to reduce noise. To get the same image with comparable sharpness to the 30D you must apply more sharpening and this invariably increase noise. This is very apparent to me, even at ISO 100. I will never ever buy the 450D. I can only imagine the noise of that 12 MP on that small 1.6 sensor. It is crazy - this obsession with MP. Hold on to your old cameras. For sure the newer model will not be better for stock photography.

Seren · « **Reply #13 on:** February 26, 2008, 13:37 »

Quote from: basti on February 26, 2008, 11:38

Guys, sorry, but why the heck do you compare low end cheap plastic body (400D) with semiprofi metal splash and dust proof body(40D)? Thats the real advantage of 40D against 400D. Just try to use your 400D in rain, extreme dust or give it some nasty shock and you will soon enough discover the real difference...

My 350D spent an awful lot of time on beaches and by the side of rivers in wales photographing sports. Never noticed any problems with the elements getting in. I think people are paranoid.

What's really worrying is that I've had more dust in my 5D in two months than in my 350D in 18 months. And I haven't taken my 5D anywhere exciting or changed the lens half as much.

Waldo4 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 26, 2008, 13:41 »

Isn't the 350D and 30D sensor and processing chip exactly the same? I thought that the advantages the 30D had over the 350D were build and size, a general friendlier arrangement, faster burst, and superior AF/metering.

graficallyminded · « **Reply #15 on:** February 28, 2008, 23:54 »

Wow! This makes perfect sense. Canon does the same thing with their point and shoots. The upgraded models of my 5 megapixel A610 use the same sensor, just have slightly more megapixels - and the result is even more noise. I'd be interested in purchasing a 30D over a 40D now, if someone else can back up was Eco is saying here.

Quote from: Eco on February 26, 2008, 12:21

At some point in time I owned them all: 10D, 20D, 30D, 40D and 400D. I only shoot RAW and after processing hundreds of images of all these cameras it is clear that the best sensor of them all is the 8.2 MP sensor used in the 20D/30D. I bought a 40D to replace my 30D and also bought a 400D as a light weight travel camera. I sold my wife's 350D and gave her my 30D. Guess what? I took back my 30D and gave her the 400D. I never had problems submitting the 8.2 MP images from my 30D at their original size, while with the 40D and 400D I often have to downsize my images to avoid rejection for artefact or noise. Don't let Canon fool you. They reduced the default sharpening of the new 10MP cameras to reduce noise. To get the same image with comparable sharpness to the 30D you must apply more sharpening and this invariably increase noise. This is very apparent to me, even at ISO 100. I will never ever buy the 450D. I can only imagine the noise of that 12 MP on that small 1.6 sensor. It is crazy - this obsession with MP. Hold on to your old cameras. For sure the newer model will not be better for stock photography.

ptlee · « **Reply #16 on:** March 01, 2008, 02:46 »

After reading what eco said, I'm hoping for a good deal for a 5D ;-) My 400D as been doing ok for me so far, sticking to 16 bit processing for my workflow helped a lot. But 10mp just doesn't get me to those xxl sales... I have my doubts about the 450D too.

Quote from: Eco on February 26, 2008, 12:21

At some point in time I owned them all: 10D, 20D, 30D, 40D and 400D. I only shoot RAW and after processing hundreds of images of all these cameras it is clear that the best sensor of them all is the 8.2 MP sensor used in the 20D/30D. I bought a 40D to replace my 30D and also bought a 400D as a light weight travel camera. I sold my wife's 350D and gave her my 30D. Guess what? I took back my 30D and gave her the 400D. I never had problems submitting the 8.2 MP images from my 30D at their original size, while with the 40D and 400D I often have to downsize my images to avoid rejection for artefact or noise. Don't let Canon fool you. They reduced the default sharpening of the new 10MP cameras to reduce noise. To get the same image with comparable sharpness to the 30D you must apply more sharpening and this invariably increase noise. This is very apparent to me, even at ISO 100. I will never ever buy the 450D. I can only imagine the noise of that 12 MP on that small 1.6 sensor. It is crazy - this obsession with MP. Hold on to your old cameras. For sure the newer model will not be better for stock photography.

Eco · « **Reply #17 on:** March 01, 2008, 06:38 »

Ptlee, I think it is wise to consider a 5D. If you want a higher MP camera look at one with a larger sensor, not one with a higher pixel density. For that XXL large sizes I have a 16.7 MP 1DsmkII and what a fantastic camera.

Freezingpictures · « **Reply #18 on:** March 01, 2008, 07:45 »

Quote from: Waldo4 on February 26, 2008, 13:41

Isn't the 350D and 30D sensor and processing chip exactly the same? I thought that the advantages the 30D had over the 350D were build and size, a general friendlier arrangement, faster burst, and superior AF/metering.

I think the processing chip is the same, but the 350D has a different sensor, it even has less MP 8.0 compared to the 30Ds 8,2.

ptlee · « **Reply #19 on:** March 02, 2008, 17:48 »

For FF sensor DSLRs, I'd have to be very careful about the lenses I choose

I take wildlife too, occasionally, and want the extra reach of a cropped sensor, and a faster fps.

I'm leaning towards occasionally renting a 1DsmkII for some stock shoots, and a 40D for family, nature shoots. It'll be nice for me to own a 1Ds mkII, but I'm not sure if my xxl sales can cover the extra cost of getting one (used selling at about twice the price of a 5D).

Cheer,
PTLee

Quote from: Eco on March 01, 2008, 06:38

Ptlee, I think it is wise to consider a 5D. If you want a higher MP camera look at one with a larger sensor, not one with a higher pixel density. For that XXL large sizes I have a 16.7 MP 1DsmkII and what a fantastic camera.

Freezingpictures · « **Reply #20 on:** March 03, 2008, 03:22 »

@ptlee, take the 5D, crop the image to 8 MP and you will have almost the equivilant to the 30D cropped sensor

and you are still able to have fullframe and if you do not need the reach more detail in your image and XL size at iS. But yes it will still not give you a faster fps. except if you shoot at a smaller size with the 5D.

ptlee · « **Reply #21 on:** March 04, 2008, 00:51 »

Thanks for the suggestion, I did think about getting the 5D before. Very tempted to try out the FF image quality.

I reckon my shooting needs are quite varied for a single camera to fit all, ranging from landscapes to (small birds) wildlife and tabletop studio shots for submitting to micros. A cropped sensor with a fast AF & good fps looks to fit, especially if I couple my setup with a 10-22mm for landscapes, or use a standard zoom at the longer end and stitch the shots for a wider/panoramic view.

I guess I just need a 40D with a nice clean 12mp cropped sensor

12mp to have xxl sales, and the rest of its feature fits my needs quite nicely. When I start to earn more serious bucks with stock, I can start dreaming about a FF DSLR

Thanks to you all for sharing your views.

cheers.

Quote from: Freezingpictures on March 03, 2008, 03:22

@ptlee, take the 5D, crop the image to 8 MP and you will have almost the equivilant to the 30D cropped sensor and you are still able to have fullframe and if you do not need the reach more detail in your image and XL size at iS. But yes it will still not give you a faster fps. except if you shoot at a smaller size with the 5D.

MikLav · « **Reply #22 on:** March 11, 2008, 15:43 »

I had 350D for 2 years. The price of 30D didn't justify the difference for me so I stayed with 350D. When 400D appeared it didn't justify the upgrade for me either. 5D was/is too expensive for my current level. So I stayed with 350D quite peacefully. However when 40D appeared I was among the first buyers - all together it was a perfect step forward from 350D. I use it since last September and didn't regret it a single time.

But your choice isn't the same, as you compare 400D vs 40D. It depends on how do you will use it, and how much do you shoot, and in what conditions. Also upgrade is different from first buy (I mean if budget allows buying a better camera first time is easier for yourself than upgrade from something already decent).

Talking about 5D vs 40D I have serious doubts it really worth the money. Don't get me wrong, 5D is really great camera, but it is several years old and is still quite expensive. 40D has a new generation sensor and a new generation CPU, and 14-bit processing, which 5D doesn't have. There were several tests revealing the quality of picture is quite the same for 40D and 5D (noise, colors etc). I am sure the successor of 5D would beat 40D, but I doubt it is worth to spend that much for 5D today.

Anyway, if you are looking for really high resolution and really nice portraits with shallow DOF you should look for medium format instead, the names like Hasselblad, Phase One etc

just kidding

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Author Topic: EOS 40D vs 400D? (Read 18343 times)

Peter

GeoPappas

vonkara

Peiling

GeoPappas

araminta

Peter

le_cyclope

Peter

stokfoto

sbonk

basti

Eco

Seren

Waldo4

graficallyminded

ptlee

Eco

Freezingpictures

ptlee

Freezingpictures

ptlee

MikLav

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